House construction Who has experience with this procedure?

Hello everyone,

I need some advice and opinions.

We would like to build a single-family house solidly, brick by brick/with a basement (white tank), the plot is available.

Since we are not professionals, it seemed best to us to hire a general contractor.

We had contact with several and had designs made, which were only really usable at a “first glance.”

Since we have an extremely crappy development plan and a tight building window, it is especially important that what is permitted is also implemented as optimally as possible.

Because a fixed price is actually important to us, we did not consider hiring an architect.

The GCs always seemed to have a draftsman at hand who put the designs on paper.

Besides the well-known “bickering” from most providers regarding intellectual property of the plans etc., we still had one GC in the running.

That this GC builds incredibly “efficiently and functionally” may be good and fine from a “Dipl.-Ing. perspective,” but as far as aesthetics, design and the feel-good factor are concerned, it tended more towards “nope… rather not.”

Also important to me is a certain flexibility during the build, i.e. I have some materials that I will provide to the respective craftsmen for installation as they are already available, and I would also like to know quite exactly what I will get for our money.

Statements like: “It will look nice, we’ll manage that… we build according to DIN, etc.” I don’t want or can’t hear anymore. I was also tired of constantly receiving independently changed plans from him (without informing us or pointing out changes) (for example, a door becomes a sliding door, suddenly the ceiling height changes, etc.).

When addressed, comments like: “The current ceiling height is sufficient, he finds a sliding door more visually appealing, etcetera blaaaaaaaaaaaaa” come up.

A few weeks ago on a business trip, I saw a house that exactly matches our ideas. I rang the bell and asked if I could look at this great house (about the same size as our plan)… I was allowed… and it almost blew me away. Open, bright, modern, straight lines almost perfect… so it is possible after all, but it’s an architect’s house. L

The architect (a close friend of the residents) lives a few houses away and came by immediately. Because of my enthusiasm, he offered me to send him our documents (with building regulations), which I did straight away.

The next day he called me and said: “If we like the house that much, we should completely forget our previous plans… (wrong proportions, narrow, cramped, etc.).

Since the architect lives at the other end of Germany, unfortunately he can’t supervise us. But he has “remodeled” his friend’s great floor plan for our house design, so now we have a submit-ready plan according to our wishes, but still no one to build the place.

The architect told us that he knows some construction companies that only do shell construction, but also offer to take over site management for the entire construction phase. They would put out tenders and gather quotes, organize, monitor processes etc.

The respective contracts for work would have to be concluded by the client themselves.

Disadvantages would be: You have more effort yourself because you have to inform yourself very precisely about what you want (which heating system, brand, model, etc.).

Advantage:

You can choose the companies yourself and also have a lot more personal contact with the craftsmen and can still make small changes in direct consultation in between, which were forgotten in the planning.

Now my questions to you:

1. Do you have experience with such an approach? (Good and bad)

2. How does it behave with the risk of meeting deadlines (completion of the house)? Is the date fixed via the contract with the site management?

3. Which trades come after the shell construction (after the house stands, roof is covered, windows are installed)? Off the top of my head I think of:

- Screed layers
- Plasterers (inside and outside – is that one trade?????)
- Electricians
- Heating and sanitation
- Bathroom builders (???)
- Drywall installers
- Tilers/floor covering
- Chimney builders
- Painters
- Outdoor landscaping
- Garage (prefabricated)
- (Insulation, roller shutters I can’t assign right now)

Did I forget anything and which should or can be combined?

How does warranty work in such a case at the “boundary area” where everyone blames the other?

4. How high will the costs of site management approximately be, or how are they calculated? Fixed amount or percentage of the total building price?

5. What are the cost differences compared to a GC, who understandably wants to earn (for that you would have site management costs here), but a GC would also include a corresponding “safety buffer” in a guaranteed fixed price, which falls away here?

6. Have I forgotten anything important?

I know these are a lot of questions and look forward to your answers.

Best regards

@E.Curb

Thank you very much for your reply.

....because I don’t know anyone good in the area here, have heard and experienced a lot of negative things in my circle of friends and customers....and all the home builders (that I know) only complain and are dissatisfied (costs get out of control, poor care, bickering over responsibilities, etc.

Besides, I no longer feel like taking any consideration of sensitivities or dealing with any "divas" among "creative artists" when their designs are criticized. (I do not want to offend anyone, maybe I’ve just been unlucky so far).

I am the customer and whoever pays the band also decides what is played, especially since we are also willing to pay more. For that, however, I expect/demand appropriate services such as quality, reliability, punctuality, and adherence to promises made.

I will not tolerate this "messing around" and "procrastinating" in my home building (as is often read here in the forum).

The corresponding contracts will be drawn up by my legal department.

It may certainly not be common and some here will surely shake their heads, but anyone who does not accept that as a craftsman is out...

Due to my "strict" approach, the "not-so-good" companies don’t even submit offers because it scares them off. (The same applies/applied to general contractors.)

I also pay the companies very quickly because I do not need any financing for the house.

Where people work, mistakes happen, I have full understanding for that – but no understanding for unreliability, untruths, empty promises, etc., to get signatures, the same applies to deliberately concealing certain costs during construction that a layperson (I also call myself a "complete layman" on this topic) wouldn’t realize, hence my questions above.

Regards

....because I don't know a good one here in the area,

just because you don't know one doesn't mean he doesn't exist. I don't know which area you're from, but in Germany we don't have a shortage of architects......

Besides, I am no longer willing to take any sensitivities into account or to confront any "diva attitudes" from "creative artists" when their designs are criticized.

There are two types of architects: artists and realists. Choose a realist! Don't worry, you'll recognize the difference relatively quickly

I am the client and whoever pays for the chapel also decides what music is played,

You are absolutely right. But you also have to give the architect certain freedoms and accept that he is the one with the experience and expertise. Many clients think they know better, and in the end they wonder why it doesn't work that way or why it could have worked better.

The corresponding contracts are prepared by my legal department.

Wow, that impresses me, honestly

Because of my "strict" approach, the "not so good" companies don't even submit an offer because it discourages them. (The same applies/applied to GCs)

and the "good" companies don't need to accept orders from "difficult" clients. A vicious circle......

The companies are also paid very quickly by me, since I do not require any financing for the house construction.

Financing does not delay payment to the companies.

Where people work, mistakes happen, I fully understand that,

Sorry, but I really don't believe you that much now Regards

Hello,

I am the customer, and whoever pays the band also decides what is played, especially since we are willing to pay more.

So, the whole customer is king thing. I want to counter that, because I can no longer hear that saying, that in my case the king is only the one who behaves like one, and that certainly has nothing to do with whether he wants to invest less or more money.

The corresponding contracts for work are prepared by my legal department.

That would be the moment at the latest when I would withdraw from the discussions and wish the interested party all the best for their construction project. It is not the first and certainly not the last time that I have supposedly "lost" good orders because of this, BUT my gut knows that our business owner/tradespeople/we gain quality of life on the other side because of it.

Our contractual framework is the result of many years of experience, and I know that it is fair both for the interested party and the executing tradesperson. Since the parameters keep changing, it is constantly kept up to date, so it is – if you will – a never-ending story. For this reason, I absolutely do not let myself be dictated to, because that implies that you are not looking for a partner but a subordinate, and none of our business owners/tradespeople, nor my partner or I are that. Contract comes from agreement – there is nothing against adding one or the other comment here or there at the customer's request. As long as the balance is not changed, no problem. Everything beyond that, which even suggests that in the end only one party, namely the business owner/tradesperson, is the fool, is out of the question.

With all due understanding for your fears regarding the current reporting from the circle of friends or media – let me tell you that a pot always finds a matching lid, and accordingly the characters/contract partners fit together with very few exceptions.

Find yourself an architect, as E.Curb has rightly written, Germany is not suffering from a lack of architects. Work out your floor plans with him and then commission him to prepare the specifications. For you, this approach is certainly the right way – I just doubt that you will lose fewer nerves because of it.

Kind regards

Hello E. Curb,

thank you very much for your comments

1 ...there is no shortage of architects in Germany

True, but that is exactly the problem: to find a good one from the masses.

2. ....you have to give planners freedom

True, you are right here too, I also give the planners freedom.

But when I, as a layman, let experts plan something and the result is things that not only "do not meet our requirements," but are not even really practical, I do get a bit of "shortness of breath."

Example from our last draft:

There is a gallery staircase from the upper floor to the ground floor. It was planned in such a way that the living room door could no longer be opened afterwards..... the expert’s solution was a (!!!!) 60 cm sliding door and that in a living room of about 75-80 sqm
There were several such "no goes," and I can no longer leave such a person the creative freedom.

3. We specify the contracts for work

My legal department already does that today for the expansions of our office building (although we are "only" tenants there, we have partially taken over the expansion). Since the building is additionally a listed monument, there are additional difficulties that no normal person can imagine.

4. Good companies do not need to take orders from difficult customers.

WRONG!! Even good companies usually need to....because primarily the economic aspect is in the foreground and only then customer sympathy.

What you might mean:

Good companies do not need annoying customers who want a BMW at the price of a Trabant.

This topic related to me:

I am not a difficult customer but—(self-praise stinks, but how else can I describe it here in the forum?) a pleasant, loyal, and very faithful customer, from whom craftsmen, suppliers, and service providers very gladly take orders and often deliver more (in terms of care, delivery time, goodwill, etc.) than was ever expected at all........which in turn leads to the fact that I logically order exactly these companies and craftsmen again next time even if they are more expensive, because I want quality and reliability.......so rather a "positive spiral" that has already existed for 20 years in some areas.

What you mean is that before I become a customer, I check things completely (at least I try to) and that is off-putting for many and sometimes also unpleasant.

But I consider this approach better than the "palim-palim cuddle course" at the beginning and once the signatures under their standard contracts have been made, you are the paying sucker—and the plaything of the fine print.

5. The financing does not delay the payments

Not quite.....if the general contractor pays his subcontractors very late, it does. Besides, the process takes longer anyway..... I pay the general contractor..... accounting..... payment terms..... etc..... then the general contractor pays the subcontractor...
With my idea, the craftsman gets his money immediately. (Besides, I avoid the risk that work will be stopped if the subs are not paid.)

6. You can believe me that I am a very understanding person and deal openly and honestly with people (both privately and professionally). I also let myself be convinced by other opinions, but only when I know that I can rely on my "counterpart."

Note: None of my actual questions have been answered yet

Best regards

Hello,

Do you ever sleep? Yesterday first reply in the forum around 4:50 am... last reply around 1:00 am ????

At the moment I have a lot on my plate and some of it I can't shake off, like a dog water. As a consequence, sleep is too short...

The "your" contract work is the result of many years, I believe gladly, but even you wrote last night in the "neighbor forum" regarding a question about the KfW: "Too vague." - and that's exactly the point why I want to have these contracts changed. (After all, the texts are not uniform either)

D’accord. From this perspective, I can understand your objections; hopefully, you can understand me too if you follow my replies here.

But it is also the case that some GUs who are out of the running (because they rejected me) are knocking again and want to get back into the game.

A very bad starting position for the suppliers; probably the number at the bottom right is the driving force.

(Happened this morning while my wife and I were at the 3rd chimney builder by now.......Do you happen to know roughly what a Kal-Fire tunnel chimney costs?? This (3rd) chimney builder also more or less "refused" today to give an approximate price, is that normal :confused

I guess the chimney builder really can't tell. The supplier is a Dutch company; probably the chimney builder first has to negotiate the conditions for himself. I know that one of our customers bought a chimney from this supplier and had it installed; just don't ask me which series, there are several. However, I know that it was a four-digit amount starting with a 6 that came as an invoice; this chimney builder is probably the leading supplier in his field.

I know that as pot or lid I will find the matching counterpart.

Yes, I can confirm that. Too bad Bavaria is not just around the corner and too far for a short visit; we certainly would have had an interesting conversation.

The floor plan is ready.... I want to start by March at the latest...

That will be very tight, unless the building application has already been submitted.

Best regards