Gravel bed over property boundary - is approval necessary?

  • Erstellt am 2023-12-13 12:12:51

Häuslebauer202

2023-12-13 12:12:51
  • #1
Hello everyone,
we are building a semi-detached house and our semi-detached neighbor is ahead of us and wants to start the groundworks in January. Now, we have been asked by our neighbors to give our written consent that their gravel cushion may extend onto our property. Allegedly, everything will be removed after the foundation slab is constructed.
However, our architect has concerns because, for example, the cushion cannot simply be removed, as otherwise the cushion under the foundation slab would just "run out" and the house would have to be supported. We are also using recycled gravel, which the neighbor is not, and it is questionable whether that is compatible.
It also makes us suspicious that written permission is being requested. That means it could later be said, "you agreed," and we might have to pay the costs of underpinning. Has anyone experienced such a case? Our architect suggested they should install a strip foundation so that the two houses can stand independently, but that would cost more.
It is also noteworthy that the houses will probably not be at the same level, but ours will be set deeper due to the thicker foundation slab.
Currently, we refuse to sign anything.
Thanks for your assessment
 

sascha-t4-le

2023-12-13 14:00:16
  • #2
Does your neighbor have to take into account that you start building a little later? I don't know the answer to that, but I can say something about the structural engineering.
Let's assume you are building an extension to an existing building. Then you must neither undermine his house nor let anything crumble out. When excavating your construction pit, the bottom edge of the neighbor's foundation must be covered with at least 50 cm of natural soil (see DIN 4123).
If your slab foundation lies deeper than the neighbor's, then you automatically have to underpin, and that costs money. The neighbor must also agree to this.

Please clarify whether duplex neighbors in a new development area have to consider each other. No matter what the answer is, agree with the neighbor that he arranges a strip foundation on the boundary, and that 50 cm deeper than your excavation base.
Maybe someone can share from their experience how this was resolved?
 

Häuslebauer202

2023-12-13 14:16:20
  • #3

I think of course the neighbor does not have to take this into account, but if he can’t wait 3 months, then he has to take appropriate measures so that he can carry it out "damage-free," at least that’s my naive view.

That’s exactly how we see it too, that something would "crumble out" with the desired approach... and if we agree, we have the mess.

Do I understand correctly that you also think that a strip footing would be the only reasonable solution? Of course we don’t want to mess things up with the neighbors, so we have to proceed carefully :/
 

11ant

2023-12-13 14:26:08
  • #4
First of all, my condolences for the really unrealistic separate construction of the halves of your semi-detached house. I strongly recommend that you revise this dangerous wrong decision as far as possible, for example by at least starting your foundation slab at the same time. Explanations can be found in my post "A semi-detached house has TWO halves" (on "Bauen jetzt") as well as here in the #goalkeeperthread (which, although primarily about his beautiful house, unfortunately inevitably also involves Mayor Dumb and Neighbor Dumber, so the story works excellently as the leading required reading for everyone who can still be saved from the ruin of individual semi-detached house construction).

Now first the good news: concerns that your recycled gravel could be infected by normal gravel and lose its organic certification are unfounded. The misfits may play together and even sing the same songs. The master properties of gravel are grain size and compressive strength – whether the gravel comes from free-range or caged origin is irrelevant. One can never have enough gravel, quacks Uncle Scrooge.


Secondly, semi-detached halves never really stand autarkic from each other – geologically, Cain and Abel never avoid having to watch over their respective brother. They are at most decouplable – and that should be done – acoustically. And first of all, the architect may please state what he understands about foundations; I fear a novice without experience from responsible construction practice. Changing him now, almost "between the years," will probably be difficult. What kind of person is he anyway: self-chosen or an inclusive planner from your general contractor?


At least he has a minimal basic understanding of the viscosity of the involved masses—there is still a glimmer of hope.


That is the actual core of the (fundamental) problem: that reality makes no cut at your shared boundary, and all forces act radiantly. Even their foundation would basically need a margin on the shared side, and the gravel cushion definitely would too as long as the half stands alone. The fact that their gravel cushion overhang on the shared side becomes dispensable as soon as your half is added allows for the "removal" of this part, which for anyone competent in bulk goods is an inevitably amusing word. That it would gradually be resumed at your construction start was already correctly pointed out by the neighbors, and now we come to the Achilles' heel of the catch:


"Remarkable" is the wrong word; it should be "must be taken into account," and "probably" is dangerous: these height details should be coordinated strictly. From your description, I deduce that at least on part of the height of the neighbor’s gravel cushion, your side’s foundation slab would already be their neighbor itself. Under no circumstances allow this to fall into the planning and execution responsibility of separate contractors!!!
Therefore, my (factual and timely) most urgent advice is that you also have the excavation contractor provide your foundation slab—and at the same time. Also read here using the search term "Fundamenterder."


That’s exactly it. Therefore my advice, the two most urgent parts being: have the foundation slabs made together and consider the different heights planned in detail(!).

So communicate with your neighbors that you were warned in time against building the individual halves separately and that you would rather join with them for the foundation than go this approval route.

In a divided billing of planning and construction measures, I see no problem. Likewise, you can plan and build separately—possibly delayed—once a safe height for the stability of their half is reached (see above).

--- here I was already finished when you wrote again ---


The view is indeed more than naive because the person obliged to show consideration here is you.


(see above)


Forget the childish chatter of your planner about foundations; he only half-listened in his studies. You should proceed not only carefully, but above all wisely, and not alienate yourselves _and_ the neighbors ;-)

In this sense: Congratulations on coming before the child fell into the well!
 

sascha-t4-le

2023-12-13 14:27:34
  • #5


either yes or no, here I see a contradiction



you will have the mess even without agreeing. Besides, I already wrote that you are only allowed to come up to 50cm to the bottom edge...


a strip foundation is the most sensible and cheapest option.
 

sascha-t4-le

2023-12-13 14:34:17
  • #6
That's even better and cheaper...
 

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