Estimating the renovation of existing properties including funding

2023-02-03 08:19:36

Hello dear community,

we are looking for a suitable property for ourselves and are increasingly looking at existing properties. I find it very difficult to roughly assess the offers and estimate whether they fit into our budget, especially with necessary renovation needs and positive effects from subsidies. A few questions on this:

- Under what conditions can existing properties be renovated to an Efficiency House 85 with reasonable effort? Are there any rule of thumbs?
- Do you have experience with creating an individual renovation roadmap before buying a property? Is it possible to agree with the seller regarding cost-sharing? Especially if you do not end up buying?
- Which heating system is suitable as a replacement for an old oil heating? If I understand correctly, basically only heat pumps (from when do they make sense?) or otherwise pellet heating? Heat pumps only in combination with underfloor heating (and thus additional costs for new flooring?)?

Here is a rough example:
- Property from 1965 in solid construction (brick-faced)
- Oil heating from 1991
- Energy value 205 (G)
- Living area 180 sqm, 1.5 floors
- Basement

- Am I correct in thinking that a brick-faced solid construction may have the advantage of cheap "injection insulation"?
- Is it realistic here to achieve EH85 with insulation of facade, roof, basement, and replacement of windows?
- Would this realistically also be possible for <100k€?

I really hope you might have a few good tips and rules of thumb for me that provide orientation when buying a house. In case of doubt, I would of course always involve an appraiser and energy efficiency expert BEFORE purchase. But I cannot do that for every house I visit.

Regards!

2023-02-03 08:33:38

Hi,

In case of doubt, I would of course still involve an expert and energy efficiency specialist BEFORE purchase.

Great idea, but it doesn’t work because the energy efficiency experts are not just sitting around waiting for you. Where we are, they are (still) very fully booked. And besides that, they first have to calculate the entire property.

- Is it realistic here to achieve insulation for façade, roof, basement, and window replacement to EH85?
- Would this also be realistically possible for <100k€?

You can reach KfW85, it’s all a question of effort.
Under 100k€ for what kind of house? Are you doing the work yourself or subcontracting everything?
Calculate about 1k€ per window, 5k for the front door, 140€/sqm for the façade, I don’t have a figure for the roof right now. Also basement ceiling insulation, if a basement exists. Additionally, heat pump (which has a long lead time) and underfloor heating / new radiators.

- Do you have experience with creating an individual renovation roadmap before purchasing a property? Can you negotiate cost-sharing with the seller? Especially if you end up not buying?

As a seller, I would break off the conversation at this point. You will have to bear the costs.

- Which heating system is suitable as a replacement for an old oil heating? If I see it correctly, actually only heat pump (from when does it make sense?) or otherwise pellet heating? Heat pump only in combination with underfloor heating (and thus additional costs for new floor coverings?)?

Heat pump, but it also works well with new special radiators.

2023-02-03 08:41:10

Hello,

I have extensively renovated a 1960s house. Therefore, I might be able to answer a few questions.

- Under what conditions can existing properties be renovated to an Efficiency House 85 standard with reasonable effort? Are there any rules of thumb for this?

It's always difficult to say in general. Whether a certain standard can be achieved can only be determined by an energy consultant. As a "rule of thumb," I would pay attention to the following things: a thermal envelope must be possible, so no concrete balconies, no open stairwells down to the basement, preferably a simple rectangular house shape to make façade insulation easier to apply. The roof must be insulated. It is especially simple if there is an unused roof structure.
For me, it was always clear: everything new - façade, windows, roof insulation. Does that still count as reasonable effort for you?

- Do you have any experience with creating an individual renovation roadmap before purchasing a property? Can you negotiate cost sharing with the seller in this regard? Especially if you eventually do not buy?

No, when I bought, that would not have been feasible. If you deal with the topic a bit, you eventually know yourself what is doable and what current costs might be. In many cities, there are free consulting services on the topic of renovation. Just use those. But spending money in advance for a house you may not get is questionable. It scares off sellers!

Which heating system is suitable as a replacement for an old oil heating system?

I chose gas, and I would choose it again. I still consider it the cheapest way to heat when considering acquisition costs. With insulation, gas consumption stays well within limits.
Pellets require a lot of space. I prefer having a usable workshop basement rather than a pellet storage in the cellar.

- Is it realistically possible to achieve EH85 by insulating façade, roof, basement, and replacing windows here?
- Would this also realistically be possible for under 100k€?

That might be difficult, since the house with 180m² of living space is rather large. However, I do not know the current price levels.

2023-02-03 09:28:22

Thank you very much for the very helpful answers. In particular, I had not considered the availability of the energy consultants.

A few follow-up questions:

If I now find a house that can be renovated with reasonable effort and has an old heating system, could I then plan a budget of €150,000 for renovation + installation of a heat pump using a low-interest loan from KFW, right? (provided that level 85 EE is achievable)

Can this funding for the complete renovation actually be combined with further individual funding from BAFA? For example, for the heating system?

How is the fixed interest rate period for the KFW loan to be understood? If you choose 10 years, the loan is completely repaid over the 10 years, correct? (installment accordingly high). If I choose 20 years now, I simply have a certain uncertainty about what interest rates I will have to pay from year 11 to 20, but still more advantageous than the house bank, correct?

Disadvantages of a gas heating system would be that you do not achieve the EE class in the funding and a certain uncertainty regarding gas prices over the next decades. For that, the investment costs are rather low and possibly no replacement of the radiators is necessary?

2023-02-03 09:35:34

If you choose 10 years, the loan will be completely paid off over the 10 years, right?

No. The repayment is rather low. With us, after 10 years, 65k of 100,000 are still outstanding. You can then continue financing this with the KfW (more expensive) or switch to any bank you like.

2023-02-03 09:37:56

Hello dear community,

we are looking for a suitable property for ourselves and are increasingly looking at existing properties.
I find it very difficult to roughly evaluate the offers and estimate whether they fit into our budget, especially with necessary renovation needs and positive influences from subsidies.
Some questions about this:

- Under what conditions can existing properties be renovated with reasonable effort to an efficiency house 85? Are there any thumb rules?
- Do you have experience with creating an individual renovation roadmap before purchasing a property? Can agreements regarding cost sharing be made with the seller? Especially if you end up not buying?
- What heating system is suitable as a replacement for an old oil heating system? If I see it correctly, it’s actually only heat pumps (from when is it sensible?) or otherwise pellet heating? Heat pump only in combination with underfloor heating (and thus additional costs for new floor coverings?)?

Here perhaps a rough example:
- Property from 1965, solid construction (brick-faced)
- Oil heating from 1991
- Energy value 205 (G)
- Living area 180sqm, 1.5 floors
- Basement

- Do I see correctly that a brick-faced solid construction might have the advantage of affordable "injection insulation"?
- Can one realistically achieve EH85 with facade, roof, basement insulation and window replacement?
- Would this also be realistically possible for <100k€?

I really hope that you might have a few good tips and thumb values for me that give orientation when buying a house.
In case of doubt, I would of course still always call in an appraiser and energy efficiency expert BEFORE buying.
But I can’t do that for every house I visit :-D

Regards!

We are currently renovating a house that originally had an energy requirement of 241. Here are some prices:

- Windows as already mentioned approx. €1250 each (in our case wooden windows, plastic is certainly cheaper - and of course depending on size)
- Roof: insulation between and above rafters for U-value 0.14 approx. €300/sqm -> €45,000 for 150 sqm roof area.
- Basement ceiling: I don’t have a price for this yet, but I think we will get under €5000 for ~80 sqm.
- Facade was already insulated for us with 8cm ETICS.

We don’t reach a KfW85 house with this, but the GEG2020 new construction standard (116 kwh/m2).

If you do the heating system, it will be significantly more expensive than €100,000. We are paying about €60,000 for this (including new pipes, radiators and heat pump).

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Estimating the renovation of existing properties including funding

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