Cost to renovate a complete house

  • Erstellt am 2019-02-21 15:06:10

caddar

2019-02-21 20:50:52
  • #1
We are currently gutting an old house from the 60s. With the attic conversion, it would have about 200m² of living space. The costs including everything would have been around 650k € according to the quotes (the estimate was ~500k)... (including architect, kitchen, outdoor area)... However, with some "architectural gimmicks"..

We have now somewhat reduced the whole thing. But I can only say that a "real" gut renovation including floor plan changes (steel beams!) is really not cheaper than a new build... What you save on the shell construction goes not only for the gutting, but also for the labor of the people, since much less can be done with large machines.
 

Niloa

2019-02-21 22:18:45
  • #2
Phew, that’s really a big deal. I still need to look around a bit to see at what price there are houses in need of renovation available here.
 

Dr Hix

2019-02-22 02:47:39
  • #3


Like what, for example? I can’t think of anything typical that would be done and require large machines that you couldn’t regularly use on the property.

I find the 650k or 500k pretty steep even by southern German standards; there must be more than just a bit of "playing around" in there and probably also more "outdoor facilities" than is usually associated with a new build. Or is that including the purchase price?

We’ve (almost) finished the little 185m² shack from ’39. Terrible backlog of renovations and completely "botched" with various unauthorized extensions on the house and the property.

The demolition produced about 180 cubic meters of construction debris, wood, and waste (and some asbestos) and was carried out step by step in parallel with the planning by ourselves with active help from friends in volunteer work (the last debris container is still there).
Inside, we turned a bit over 16 rooms into 9 (sometimes steel beams or concrete lintels were necessary), enlarged all window and door openings and equipped them with new lintels, and excavated and poured a new slab in the part of the house without a basement. We restructured and re-roofed part of the roof and replaced the wooden beam ceiling. The sewage system on the property was renewed and the "garden" superficially redesigned.

Costs for this: about €5,000 for tools and "miscellaneous" (food, respiratory protection, chisels, sandpaper, garbage bags, etc.), another €9,000 for disposal (including €1,500 for night storage heaters), and ~€35,000 for craftsmen and materials. Estimated time for own work about 1,200 man-hours.
Professionals would probably have done it much faster; we were dumb and inexperienced (and drank too often on the job ). But apparently, especially for desk workers, it triggers some kind of happiness if you hand them a sledgehammer.

In the end, only the remaining masonry was left with a fortunately only 15-year-old roof on it (and the staircase stayed intact). Of course, we also thought about (even in between) just tearing everything down but decided against it because we wouldn’t have been allowed to rebuild the house in this form and size and it probably would have cost a lot more.

On the one hand – and here I have to contradict – the KFW funding for old buildings is already pretty generous, at least for builders who plan to tackle everything anyway. We insulated the basement ceiling and the screed, the sloping ceilings on the upper floor, and the top floor ceiling and will soon have blown insulation added to the cavity walls. Together with a new gas condensing boiler, new windows, and controlled residential ventilation, that’s enough for a KFW Efficiency House 100.
Since the boiler, windows, and controlled ventilation were planned anyway and we would have insulated something in any case, the actual extra costs for the basement ceiling and doubling the rafters on the upper floor amount to just ~€3,500 and 3 long Saturdays. Admittedly, the cavity wall insulation was luck for us.

For that, we got €100,000 at 0.75% interest and a €15,000 repayment grant. Additionally, we were able to have a bunch of already pending measures like the new front door, driveway, or barrier-free shower funded via the "Age-Appropriate Renovation" program, which gives up to another €5,000 "cashback." And the highly recommended energy consultant’s costs are subsidized by 50%.

On the other hand, if I compare our fittings with those of friends in new builds with a similar budget, I would say that overall we could afford a bit more (30m² more living space, parquet with underfloor heating throughout the house, central vacuum system, water softener, ridiculously expensive bathrooms, fireplace, 40m² veranda with large whirlpool, technical gadgets, various built-in furniture, etc.) and on top of that sit right in town on 1,000m² of land (property tax about €150).

All in all, by the end, we will have spent €430,000 for purchase and renovation but, of course, did a lot of work ourselves and saved on an architect (the latter should be considered carefully!). And naturally, craftsmen here in the countryside are still a bit cheaper than in metropolitan areas.

It was (is!) sometimes quite a stressful affair, but I would do it again that way. Demolition and new construction without own work I would have estimated at all in at around €600,000, and paying that off in the long term would have come at the expense of our family time and wouldn’t have been as much fun.
 

caddar

2019-02-22 09:22:46
  • #4


That probably also depends on the location, for example, the steel beams (up to 5.5m span) had to be brought "by hand" into the building at our place. The house is in the city center (end of a row house) and is therefore only accessible from a limited number of sides. Another issue was the construction debris resulting from the modifications to the window openings and load-bearing walls. Like you, we also did the demolition work ourselves, but only on non-load-bearing walls.



Without the purchase price, the house belonged to my wife’s grandparents.

Although we don’t have the impression of furnishing it extremely luxuriously — but probably not exactly a "standard" new development either. Still, we don’t have many of the things you mentioned (whirlpool, vacuum cleaner, underfloor heating, etc.).

Since we basically had to touch everything at least once (electrical, heating, sanitary, facade, roofing), we are now renovating it to a KfW70 house, i.e.

    [*]new roof with insulation (here the structural engineer and an improper 1970s attic expansion forced us to build a completely new roof structure)
    [*]facade insulated with 16cm mineral wool
    [*]north facade (street side) with ventilated fiber cement panel cladding
    [*]basement ceiling insulation
    [*]significantly larger window openings on the south side with wood-aluminum windows
    [*]layout changes on the ground floor, living-dining-kitchen area
    [*]layout change on the upper floor -> larger bathroom
    [*]new electrical system
    [*]new heating (pellet) including pipes etc., but no underfloor heating
    [*]new bathrooms (guest + main bath + children’s bath)
    [*]attic conversion with drywall construction

What we also planned outside:

    [*]old garage removed, new (single garage) built in timber frame construction (here some architectural flair: exposed concrete base, gravel roof)
    [*]large terrace (~25m²) on steel substructure
    [*]canopy from garage to the rear basement entrance and terrace (expensive..)
    [*]new flooring in the front yard/garage area
    [*]the rest of the garden is fine / well grown in

Since we are not on site (~170km away), unfortunately, we can contribute less own work than we would actually enjoy. Since we also have no construction experts in the family (who are on site), we have an architect, who in turn also "causes" significant costs according to HOAI (although in my view well deserved).

Some of the costs as examples:

    [*]electrical 20,000€
    [*]heating, ventilation, sanitary (HLS) 40,000€
    [*]bathrooms (now only 1 main bath + guest) 20,000€
    [*]painter/ETICS/facade 37,000€
    [*]windows 33,000€
    [*]floors (parquet) 18,000€
    [*]sun protection 5,000€
    [*]metal worker (most of which was eliminated...) 50,000€
    [*]carpenter (roof + garage) 55,000€
    [*]master builder includes most uncertainties and contingencies, but around ~130,000€ (for the "complete variant")

In addition, there is the architect (alone 60,000€...), structural engineer, energy saving regulations, kitchen, built-in furniture.

I am also sure we could have gotten a super renovated house for ~250,000€, but since besides the ("undeserved") inheritance we also saved up quite a bit of equity ourselves (loan-to-value <60%), we are "treating" ourselves now.

But to end this positively and contribute something directly to the thread:

Such a renovation project is fun, DIY especially in demolition can be done by "anyone" and it is also easier to adjust the scope during construction and just see where you end up.

Even if there was no personal connection to the house (as in our case), I find such an old building in a good location simply more likeable than many of the new developments I see around here — where a real "standard developer house" (130m² living space with ~170m² plot) also costs 500,000€...

And KfW in old buildings is really great. Besides the KfW efficiency house loan (0.75% interest, 22,500€ subsidy), we have also applied for age-appropriate renovation (~3,000€) and can additionally rely on the Bavarian 10,000 houses program (9,000€).
 

Tassimat

2019-02-22 13:03:55
  • #5
My project is a 140m² [REH] from the 60s in the condition of the 60s. I have planned with 175k + 15k own contribution for pretty much everything including an additional dormer. Let's see if it will be enough. Due to various reasons, I have unfortunately not been able to show the house to an architect or similar since the purchase. The figures already mentioned roughly correspond to my estimates.
 

Niloa

2019-02-22 14:16:02
  • #6
We will take a look at a house tomorrow. At least I can check/ask about insulation. Inside, we will probably want to redo everything anyway because we would like underfloor heating and controlled residential ventilation. Has any of you installed that afterwards? The house still has an oil heating system. you did that, if I understood correctly? Is it very complicated?
 

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