Company Lüumel, trench collector

  • Erstellt am 2015-12-03 06:58:02

daytona

2015-12-03 06:58:02
  • #1
Hello everyone,
does anyone have general experience, both positive and negative, with the company Lüumel from Coswig?

I currently have an offer for a heat pump with trench collector. I have already read quite a bit about it on the web. I would also be interested in your experiences here. Unfortunately, my offer is not very informative, so I will still get in touch with the company, but maybe some of you here in the forum can help in advance:
How do the annual performance factor and consumption values compare to other heat pump systems?
Have you had a simulation / calculation of the annual performance factor made?
What is the load capacity or run-over / build-over suitability of the buried pipes in the garden?
Do I absolutely need a heat meter?
Advantages and disadvantages of trench collectors? (ok, this is very general)
 

Musketier

2015-12-03 10:35:13
  • #2
Good morning,

I cannot say much about the trench collector, only about the company Lüumel, since we ourselves have a heat pump with a surface collector from them. If I had known about the trench collector back then, I would probably have chosen it over the surface collector, since a lot of space is lost with the surface collector where nothing can be built or trees/bushes planted.

I'll start with the question about the heat meter.
We do not have a heat meter or a separate electricity meter. In hindsight, I regret this a bit, since I cannot check either the share of heating electricity or the efficiency of the heating system.

I have been reading the electricity meter almost every day since October 28, 2014. Until October 28, 2015, we used a total of 6300 kWh for household electricity and heating. In the summer (heating only for hot water), we consumed about 7 kWh daily. In winter, you certainly need a bit more, so I assume about 3000 kWh for household electricity and about 3300 kWh for heating electricity for 125 m² of living space. (This is only an estimate due to the lack of sub-meters.) However, this figure should be somewhat relativized.
1.) In the first year, we already heated more than necessary to remove the moisture.
2.) It was found that too little refrigerant was filled, so only the first part of the surface collectors was used. This then led to icing and lifting in the area of the surface collectors in winter.

In the last 35 days, I now have the first comparison with the previous year. During these days, we used 25% less electricity and thus an estimated 50% less heating electricity. However, it is currently quite warm for the season. The previous year was also mild during these 35 days but still somewhat cooler than this year.
I cannot say exactly what this lower consumption is due to (milder weather, optimized heating settings, more refrigerant). Probably a bit of everything.

As I wrote above, our lawn already lifted significantly in winter (about 25-30 cm) and lowered again in summer. We have a passage for garbage bins, etc., at the edge of the collectors behind the garage. This passage was completely torn apart by the lifting and lowering. We are in negotiations with the company Lüumel there. They claim that we were not allowed to build over this area and had to keep at least 1 meter distance (although this is not clearly stated in their brochure, since according to the brochure, one is allowed to build over water-permeable surfaces). I then wonder why the water-permeable lawn lifts by 30 cm and what would have happened to a water-permeable path?
However, in my opinion, they should also have filled the refrigerant correctly. Since they allegedly cannot do this correctly during non-heating periods, they have to come again in winter. Since I believe there is partial fault on both sides, we are trying to reach some compromise. We will redo the passage ourselves and get 2-3 free maintenance visits or something in return. Let's see what comes of it.
In our residential area, there is a second Lüumel system where the collectors were built over by a path, and there were no problems at all.

Regarding the heating system itself:
- relatively uncomplicated
- direct evaporator
- maintenance required due to the amount of refrigerant (maintenance cost about €170)
- stratified storage tank

The stratified storage tank certainly has advantages but also a significant disadvantage. On cold winter days, the hot water gets really hot (>70°C). You have to be very careful that no one burns their fingers.

I hope this helps. I am happy to answer further questions.
 

daytona

2015-12-03 11:17:00
  • #3
Hello,
thank you very much. That already answers some questions. However, a few new ones are now emerging:
If I interpret this correctly, you don’t have a separate electric meter for the heat pump? I once heard somewhere that heating electricity is discounted by the provider and can be obtained and billed via a second meter. This would of course also make consumption measurement separate from household electricity easier.
The offered heat quantity meter costs around €900. From my point of view, a rather expensive luxury just to fill your own statistics with it. Based on the current situation, I would tend to omit it for cost reasons.

You mentioned the topic of layered storage: Don’t you have to keep it >70°C anyway because of legionella, and actually (as far as I know) all water-carrying parts are insulated?
 

Musketier

2015-12-03 11:52:51
  • #4
For a separate meter, read the following pages from here:


We decided against it, but we should have had the electricity sub-meter installed.
900€ for a heat meter is quite a lot, I would have also given it some thought. If you make changes to the heating settings, you never have the same conditions to accurately compare whether your settings have had a positive or negative effect. You can only somewhat do this with an electricity meter and a heat meter. Whether you recoup the 900€ through this is, of course, questionable.

You don’t have the legionella problem with the stratified storage tank, since the domestic water is not heated in the water tank, but only when flowing through the heating water. To my knowledge, 60° is sufficient to prevent legionella. The above 70° (sometimes up to 80°) in the stratified storage tank (in winter) is properly hot, though. Last year I tried to moderate the heating curve so that it wouldn’t be quite so hot in winter. But I only succeeded to a limited extent.

In summer, however, you have to make sure that you roughly adhere to the times set in the heating system for domestic hot water heating. Otherwise, you always heat the entire heating water in the tank to temperatures that you don’t actually need.
 

Sebastian79

2015-12-03 13:06:46
  • #5
Quick side question: Why don’t you install an intermediate meter for the heat pump in the UV? That thing probably costs 50-100 euros and then you can see exactly what it consumes.
 

Musketier

2015-12-03 13:32:19
  • #6
I've already thought about that, but then I first have to find an electrician (I don't want the one from the house construction) and will probably need time off again, etc. It has been too stressful for me so far.
 

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