Air/Water Heat Pump Active Cooling

  • Erstellt am 2020-04-13 16:54:37

Tego12

2020-04-13 20:49:15
  • #1
Seems to be an emotional topic for you. I didn't want to attack you, although you are of course the prime example of wasting resources, as interesting as your project is. However, why you now come with this child club.. I can't help that you don't have children.
 

rick2018

2020-04-13 21:09:47
  • #2
The topic is not emotional for me at all. Yes, our construction project is a total waste of resources. Therefore, I do not claim that I have foregone this or that for ecological reasons. Because overall it gets lost in the background noise. Hence the statement about new construction of a single-family house.. I have pushed my statement to the extreme but clearly marked it with sarcasm. Whether I have children or not does not matter in this context. If it were my absolute wish, solutions could be found (artificial insemination, surrogate mother, adoption). I also wouldn’t know where I connected you with that. I wrote generally (one should) and not you. I think you take it too emotionally. It was not meant to be a personal attack either.

But you still haven’t explained why it was only 1-2 degrees in February and suddenly you can always maintain 23 degrees even during heat periods. And suddenly more than 1-2 degrees are possible. Has there been a heat wave in recent months? And that’s exactly what makes your statements unbelievable. It is legitimate to install such a system. But one should be honest about the performance. Otherwise, it only confuses beginners or leads to wrong purchases and unmet expectations.
 

Tego12

2020-04-13 22:11:40
  • #3


Your problem is, you always only read partial sections and pull out individual quotes. 23 degrees... Yes, cooling, shading, insulation,... Many factors play a role, cooling is one component of it. The overall concept has to be right. How much the cooling exactly contributes,... I estimate around 2 degrees.. Can I prove it? No, just as little as you can. In the other forum, there are evaluations on the topic... the effect is bigger there.

An example,... You should have read that in the other thread too, if you had read everything... : If the house heats up during the vacation, and you turn on the cooling a few days before returning, you can regulate the temperature down by several degrees, far beyond the 2 degrees. Why? Because the temperature delta between the brine and the indoor temperature is greater. Once the indoor temperature has settled at 23 degrees, the delta between the brine and the indoor temperature is naturally smaller again, so the effect of the cooling is smaller... - - > a general X degree figure is not possible.
 

rick2018

2020-04-13 22:21:38
  • #4
Well, then we are not that far apart. Of course, the effect is greater when the delta is bigger. Whether it's 1, 2, or 3 degrees... The cooling capacity is still limited. Feet get cold and it still does not dehumidify, and that has the biggest effect. The wife of the OP (has [LWWP]) does not want cold feet. If I didn’t want to install air conditioning, I would also rely on such a system... But the limits of the system should be explained. Sure, if I have my house brutally insulated and the shading is down all day, I can keep the temperatures lower. At night, the bypass on the controlled ventilation system is on, etc. You said it contributes significantly to the 23 degrees. I suspect it is rather the smallest variable.
 

Tego12

2020-04-13 22:21:49
  • #5


Well then, show me a calculation; I consider that statement to be bold in the case of a brine-water heat pump. For an air-water heat pump, I don't know the electricity consumption, but I would also be interested in that.

As a suggestion: Passive cooling: approx. 20 to 40 W/m2 (values are from Mycraft from the other thread) cooling capacity. Let's take the lower limit, which results in about 2 kW cooling capacity for a 150 sqm house. Power consumption is about 50 watts (conservative... actually even less)... ratio of 1:40... How is it with an air conditioner?

Edit: I always read brine-water heat pump (sorry Rick!)... In the case of an air-water heat pump, I would seriously reconsider the concept... It does not change the function, but the efficiency...
 

rick2018

2020-04-13 22:53:57
  • #6
It referred to the air-water heat pump. But I also don’t know the exact consumption values.
With the cooling system using a reversible heat pump, the energy must first be drawn from the ground. Only then does the actual cooling begin. It is just as sluggish as when heating.
First, the ground and the lower air get cold.
So you have to run the system for a long time or even continuously during the heat period. Especially after vacation, you need a pretty long lead time.
A modern LG air conditioner has a power consumption of 700W at 2.5KW cooling capacity.
Within 30 minutes to an hour it is ice cold (nonsense). Additionally, the air is dehumidified.
Now let’s assume the consumption is linear. So 560 watts at 2kw cooling capacity.
How many hours or days do you have to run it for the cooling effect to take place?
Let’s say 24 hours. So you have already consumed 1200 watts before you notice it (at the feet).
With an air conditioner you have significantly lower air temperatures with 280W-560W (half an hour to an hour) and dehumidified air.
That’s what my calculation was meant to show. With air conditioning you can also cool more selectively.
Your argument was solar power. That also applies to the air conditioner. Only this cools the house during the sun hours. The heat pump uses electricity also at night...
If the air conditioner is run permanently it clearly consumes more than a heat pump. But then it is also a completely different cooling effect with dehumidification.

As I said, I have nothing against the idea of the reversible heat pump.
We also will not install classic air conditioners. But a heat pump with a chilled water coil in the supply air. This system is also not so powerful. But we manage about 10 degrees (with entrenchment). You don’t need more than that either. If the shading is down etc. probably more as well.
Nevertheless, a suitably sized air conditioner is superior to our concept in terms of cooling capacity.
 

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