Air heat pump with fireplace, water-bearing stove, hot water heating

  • Erstellt am 2009-07-26 15:45:06

atelier-ava

2009-07-26 15:45:06
  • #1
I have already read through x forums but haven't found a satisfactory answer. I hope someone here can help me: We are planning a new construction project (single-family house, 130m²) and are now unsure which heating system to choose. Since we plan to mainly heat (at least the ground floor) with a fireplace, our idea was to cover the remaining heating demand with an air heat pump (due to lower initial costs compared to other heat pump systems). In any case, we definitely want to be independent of gas or oil! Of course, you often read that air heat pumps are not necessarily the most efficient heating systems, but in our case it will rather be used for "supplementary heating" and hot water supply – or am I mistaken?! Who has experience with the above-mentioned heating system and can possibly recommend an air heat pump? Or who has an alternative suggestion for an AFFORDABLE heating system? Thanks for all answers!
 

Bellyn

2009-08-06 16:35:12
  • #2
Ground source heat pump for single-family house - Yes

Hello,
I work in sales for gas engine heat pumps, so I am critical of electric heat pumps. However, they are very well suited for use in single-family houses because they are compact, with no drilling costs or other expenses for any type of probe.
Operation with underfloor heating or a ventilation system is easy and inexpensive to realize. Personally, I prefer devices from Mitsubishi Electric.
This makes hot water supply of 50 to 55 °C possible.

The efficiency point is well considered, because when you need heating capacity from the outside air, it is cold and only provides a small yield. However, the refrigeration technology of modern devices allows reaching the target temperature despite this.

As for independence from oil or gas, this is an illusion. Electricity is generated from oil, gas, and coal. When their prices rise, electricity inevitably rises with them.

It is definitely cost-effective, but you should keep in mind during planning that the heat pump must be able to supply the entire building without a chimney. This means (to give credit to the truth) that the heat pump must be somewhat oversized (unfortunately common) so that the performance fits even at the lowest outside temperatures.

Conclusion: Maintenance/operation is inexpensive, acquisition is more expensive than a condensing boiler, not CO2-neutral (but already better than everything else), good performance and high efficiency with proper planning and good connection to low-temperature heating surfaces (underfloor/wall heating), thanks to inverter operation, slight cooling via floor or wall is also possible (but more complex in terms of control technology).

Hopefully, this helps you.
My subjective opinion: With good insulation in a single-family house, an air-to-ground heat pump is the best choice.
 

parcus

2009-09-17 00:14:12
  • #3
@Bellyn
As far as independence from oil or gas is concerned, it is an illusion.

According to the gross electricity generation in Germany by energy sources (2008), mineral oil products account for just 1.6% and natural gas 13%.
Both energy sources have passed their peak extraction and, as finite resources, will see significant changes in price levels within 5-7 years.

@Atelier-ava
An air heat pump with an annual performance factor below 3.0 is simply unprofitable.
I would try to at least choose one that meets the BAFA subsidy standard.
 

Bellyn

2009-09-17 09:35:31
  • #4


What else did I say? Electricity will become more expensive; if you don’t generate your electricity yourself with a hand crank, you are not independent from anyone!

According to my research, the share of nuclear energy in the FRG is only about 22.1%. If I add your 1.6% from mineral oil and 13% from natural gas, it results for me in a clear difference from 100% load demand; I have not heard of 63.3% electricity generation from renewable sources in Germany...

One way or another: with electricity, you are just as dependent or independent as with oil, gas, coal, or other fuels. No ifs or buts.
 

Bellyn

2009-09-17 09:45:10
  • #5
Electricity and Annual Performance Factor



When here the Cop is mentioned instead of the annual performance factor, then I believe that a 3 is possible! There is no air heat pump with an annual performance factor = 3. A geothermal system manages a 3 with great difficulty (if you look at the truth and no window dressing).
If the BAFA subsidy is to be used here (which requires an annual performance factor of at least 1.2), then I really wonder why not all heat pumps have been subsidized for a long time, if an annual performance factor below 3 is already unprofitable.

So clarify beforehand whether 3 means the heating number (small epsilon) or the annual performance factor.
 

parcus

2009-09-17 10:28:16
  • #6
@Bellyn The renewable share of energy carriers in 2008 was 14.6%. The political goal is currently to replace nuclear energy with renewable energy carriers and thus cover the lion's share through these. See also the development of renewable energy carriers within the last 10 years. The aim is currently to exceed 40%. --- From 01.07.2009, the calculation of the annual performance factor according to VDI 4650 (2009) must be carried out. The BAFA promotes air-water heat pumps with at least an annual performance factor of 3.5 in new buildings or an annual performance factor of 3.3 in existing buildings. Provided the hydraulic balancing of the heating system is proven and through adjustment of the heating curve of the heating system to the corresponding building. --- Eine Geothermieanlage schafft mit Ach und Krach eine 3 (Wenn man die Wahrheit betrachtet und keine Schönrechnerei). That is simply wrong, DV heat pumps currently have an annual performance factor of 5.5 - 5.7 and SO² at an annual performance factor of 6.0. See the heat pump test by the Interstaatliche Hochschule für Technik Buchs NTB, Switzerland or the Austrian Research and Testing Center Arsenal Ges.m.b.H., Vienna as well as the real-time data by TH Darmstadt on the Bensheim project
 

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