We are planning our smart home in the single-family house

2024-01-08 15:28:00

Sounds simple, but have you ever tried it in practice?

Sure ;) I haven't tested the shower logic myself in practice yet, that was just the example in this post. In our case, the heating is not integrated into KNX anyway, but this has already been explained by several other users. However, I have already programmed the house of friends and my own is largely programmed as well, even though we are just starting to build the foundation slab :)

I’m just imagining how, during a quick shower, after 3 minutes the humidity rises above the threshold – the heating kicks in – and by minute 4-5 I’m jumping out of the shower in a hurry. Full of anticipation for a KNX-preheated towel, I’m disappointed to find it still cold, and the radiator is only just getting lukewarm.

But that’s why my prerequisite was, as a "classic" approach, that you manually turn on the heating before showering. In that case, it wouldn’t be warm enough without KNX anyway.

As I understand it, automation with KNX only makes sense where interaction between devices is desired that normally would have no connection. Like the example of the TV and the blind. For everything else, the solutions of the respective manufacturers are better suited.
For a blind you could just as well install a wireless button right next to the sofa and press it when needed. That should be feasible for well under 20k ;)

You say the manufacturers’ solutions are better suited – I might agree if they’re equivalent, but what does the Somfy roller shutter control do better than an identical KNX implementation? In my case, I would even say that the blinds in my house hardly ever need to be operated manually anymore. When I want to go to the terrace, the blind receives the signal to go up via the reed contact (and then definitely not go down automatically, so I don’t lock myself out). When the sun is shining, a sun position-dependent slat or shadow edge tracking can always provide enough light without glare and little heat. When it gets dark, everything can go down, and in the morning it can even wake me up with daylight, coordinated additionally to my alarm clock.
And yes, you can realize KNX for under 20k if you do everything yourself. You have the normal costs of electrical installation anyway, but with KNX you suddenly pay attention to much more, because very few people insist on order with terminal blocks for their classic electrical installation. My "dumb" roller shutter motors cost significantly less than wireless motors, but I have the additional cost on the actuator side. In the end, it’s probably similarly priced.

For me personally, KNX always makes sense when it makes everyday life easier, even if it’s just a few seconds where you don’t have to press a light switch or the blind opens by itself. That’s why I also have a dishwasher or a robot vacuum cleaner ;)

2024-01-08 17:06:49

Hello,

Internally, the heating actuator then always receives the command from the logic module to turn up the heat in the bathroom when the humidity is high. If you want to turn it off again, you build a second logic for a humidity value below a certain threshold. In KNX, you can either query the sensors cyclically or they only send actively when the state changes.

No, it won’t be that simple. In winter, the humidity in the bathroom will fluctuate between 35 and 55%, depending on the weather outside and moisture input from showers. In summer, on the other hand, expect more like 50-75%, but of course, the radiator shouldn’t turn on then... So what now? You have to program it specific to the heating period, and in the transition period there will still be cases where it doesn’t fit.

Everyone is entitled to indulge their playfulness there, but reading along, some applications seem, to put it mildly, not quite close to reality to me...
- Voice control for the lights? Good luck holding a screaming toddler in your arms when you’re totally stuffed up and hoarse or if you just want to turn on the light QUIETLY and silently. Better not even talk about guests or grandma.
- Music in the bathroom? Lord, I’m glad if I can at least have peace there once in a while. The last thing I want is to be blasted with music there too!
Light control by presence detector in the bathroom? Our guest restroom is lit very brightly with 15 watts. If the light were on 24/7, that would be 30 € electricity per year. Realistically, it might accidentally stay on overnight maybe every two months. And besides: in the office someone planned a presence detector with a strobelight in the bathroom. Unfortunately, it doesn’t detect you when you’re sitting on the toilet. Then the light goes off after 2 minutes... *argh*
- Temperature monitoring of the fridge? WTF... every decent fridge has had that for 20 years!
- Control of ventilation or heating? There is simply nothing to control. They are set once and then run 24/7 with those settings. Especially the heating is way too sluggish to react to small stuff like “today we have 5 guests, so we need 500 W less heating power.”
- Informing children about food via Alexa or the internal speaker system? Are you building the Palace of Versailles? For us, calling them still suffices. If the brats don’t come, it’s not because they didn’t hear it...

I thought for a long time about whether to install KNX when building the house and in the end decided against it. The playful child in me still mourns that, but the realist is glad about a lot of saved lifetime.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Andreas

2024-01-08 17:27:23

Hi,

No, it’s not going to be that simple. In winter, the humidity in the bathroom will fluctuate between 35 and 55%, depending on the weather outside and the moisture introduced by showering. In summer, expect more like 50-75%, but of course the radiator shouldn’t come on then... So what now? You have to program it specifically for the heating period, and during the transition season there will still be cases where it doesn’t fit.

Everyone is entitled to indulge their playful streak, but reading along makes some of the applications seem, to put it mildly, not quite close to reality...
- Voice control for the lights? Have fun with a screaming toddler in your arms when you’re totally congested and hoarse or just want to turn on the lights QUIETLY and silently. Let’s not even talk about guests or grandma.
- Music in the toilet? Good grief, I’m glad if I at least have peace there sometimes. The last thing I want is to have it blasted there too!
- Light control by presence detector in the toilet? Our guest toilet is very brightly lit with 15 watts. If the light was on 24/7, that would be €30 electricity per year. Realistically, it might accidentally stay on overnight once every two months. And also: The office has such a flashing bulb presence detector in the toilet. Unfortunately, it doesn’t detect you when you’re sitting on the toilet. Then after 2 minutes the light goes out... *argh*
- Temperature monitoring of the fridge? WTF... every decent fridge has had that for 20 years!
- Control of ventilation or heating? There’s simply nothing to control there. They are set once and then run 24/7 with those settings. Especially heating is way too slow to react to small stuff like “today there are 5 visitors, so we need 500 W less heating power.”
- Informing children via Alexa or in-house speaker system about mealtime? Are you rebuilding the Palace of Versailles? For us, calling out is still enough. If the kids don’t come, it’s not because they didn’t hear it...

Back then, I thought long and hard about whether I should install KNX when building the house and in the end, I decided against it. The playful side of me still mourns it, but the realist is happy about the vastly saved time in life.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Andreas

No offense, but from your post, it somehow feels like you just have no interest in Smart Home...
(1) Voice control for the lights: We already do that daily in our rented apartment; also with three kids; works wonderfully and is a blessing every time when sitting at the dining table or on the couch and not having to get up. I can still understand an alternative control via a switch.
(2) Music in the toilet: This is mainly about the guest toilet. At least as a guest, I’m happy if not every fart and drip is audible to people in the hallway.
(3) Presence detector in the toilet: It’s there to detect both presence and “no presence.” Why should the light burn 24/7 then? You misunderstood something here. And on the topic “light goes off while sitting on the toilet:” That’s exactly why there’s a small but fine difference between old-fashioned “motion detectors” and modern “presence detectors.” These devices can now detect quite precisely when someone is sitting on the toilet just breathing.
(4) Temperature monitoring of the fridge: It’s not about the fridge knowing how cold it is inside, but about ME knowing how cold it is in the fridge and being informed if the fridge breaks down and food is at risk of spoiling. (Already experienced that)
(5) Control of ventilation/heating: This has been discussed enough here; people can have different opinions.
(6) Informing children via internal speaker system: We specifically put more emphasis on soundproofing in our house, since with 3 boys it certainly won’t always be quiet. Just let the kids be in their rooms with the door closed and possibly some quiet music. They hear ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the ground floor.

Conclusion: If someone has no interest in Smart Home, we don’t need to persuade them here. But just talking everything down because you can’t imagine it yourself is not the solution either...

2024-01-08 17:37:06

Everyone is entitled to realize their play instinct there, but when reading along, some applications seem to me, to put it mildly, not quite close to reality....

I agree with that or have already expressed it.

If I had enough money, I would also join the fun. It's a nice gadget indeed. Therefore, I am "only" relying on a significantly smaller solution with Shelly. It can already do a lot, including integration of the now smart kitchen appliances as well as leak sensors, temperature and light sensors, etc. Visualization and processing via the iobroker.

2024-01-08 20:17:14

Reading along here with great interest. Just newly built with KNX myself, many options available, programming is still partly lagging behind. Wanted to say something about the topic of speaker output in the children's room. I somehow find the idea a bit unsettling, sorry. Suddenly, there's a voice and the child is standing straight up in bed because they were just dozing off. We have three potential children's rooms upstairs and have solved the future communication issue like this: in each room there is a profile with an internal LED light strip between the ceiling and the wall. Various scenes (colors, as well as patterns like 'Northern Lights', 'Fire Department', etc.) can be played via KNX. We will use that. The 'Dinner' scene is pressed on the switch in the common area (we have this scene, for example, on several buttons), kitchen lights dim, dining table light turns on, Sonos speakers turn on, and LED upstairs shows Aurora. In the upstairs bedrooms, the scene can be switched off again from two switches each (bed and door) in the children's room, in case the child does not want to come to eat. You can also expand further, several colors = several scenes: dinner, departure in 10 minutes, be quieter, do homework, take out the trash. Just a thought against speaker output like in department stores, 'the driver of the cart...'.

2024-01-08 21:09:23

Suddenly, there is a voice and the child is standing upright in bed because it was just dozing.

I can imagine quite different things...

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