st3lli83
2022-07-28 13:01:39
- #1
Hello everyone,
I have been actively reading here for a few weeks and have already come across many exciting stories. Therefore, I would like to present our current situation and hope for a lively discussion.
I had already created a thread about construction planning and asked for information regarding prefab house construction with the company [URL_INTERNA=https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/allkauf-haus-erfahrungen-wer-kann-ueber-die-firma-berichten.28928/
[B
[B][B][B]So:
[B][B][B][B][B][B]We come from NRW – area Solingen-Remscheid-Wuppertal.
I will be 39 in December. My wife just turned 35 and our daughter will be 3 in December. No more children planned.
I have been married to my wife since 2015; we were together for over 10 years before that. In 2013 we bought a condo (price back then €132,000). We then sold it in 2018 for €185,000 and bought another condo where we currently live. There was never an intention to make a profit; at that time, an extremely good opportunity for a top property arose.
For us, it was always clear that a condo was enough. We didn’t want a house. Garden etc. – no, too much work etc. Well, as it happens. Now we have a little girl and we think -> house with a garden would be great. But it’s not only the child that triggered this, many friends/acquaintances have houses and especially celebrating in the garden in summer etc. – that desire just arose now somehow.
So here we stand now:
A brief look at our current condo
Built in 2004
4-unit house with underground parking
2 apartments downstairs with garden
2 apartments upstairs over 2 floors with huge roof terrace (good 32m²)
The apartment itself is about 120m² (roof slopes already deducted)
4 rooms
At that time approx. €310,000 was borrowed.
15 year fixed at 1.57% with subsequent building savings at 2.25% over the entire term.
Term runs until retirement. Chosen deliberately. I’m of the opinion I would have to pay rent in retirement anyway, so once I’m done at retirement age, that’s fine.
Bought in 2018 for €270,000 and put in another €85,000. (Was not necessary to that extent – but the entire attic had to be redone because there was nothing there. Just the bare concrete floor. Pipes were laid, that was it. And since we were already at it, we said, let's do everything)
Except for the windows and front door, everything is new (2018). Tiles laid everywhere, floor heating installed upstairs (was already downstairs), broke through to install a staircase, the “chicken stairs” were removed and closed off etc. pp. In scope, you could have built new.
The house/the apartment is in an absolutely top location: €340/m² land value. Right next to us is the most expensive street in town with villas. Land value there €420/m², about 100m air line. Average land value is approx. €175/m²
VERY quiet, view into green, yet everything within walking distance. Highway 5 min away.
We also feel very comfortable, good neighbors, top location etc. Please don't misunderstand.
But somehow about 3-4 months ago the thought of a HOUSE came up.
At this point a little note to *2
Currently approx. €300,000 is still outstanding on our apartment loan. The value of our condo was estimated at about €500,000. We could have gotten that. As luck would have it, from a conversation with a friend it turned out that an acquaintance is looking for an apartment there. He is from the neighboring town, desperately wants to come back. Has sold his semi-detached house and now is looking for a condo. Long story short, he viewed the apartment and bought it. So much in advance.
Therefore the initial note about equity with €150k to €200k. For a sales price of €450k, there would be queues of interested buyers.
Plan is:
Sales of condo for €500,000 = €200,000 profit
Of which ~€55,000 go towards repayment of car and ING loan. That in turn would free up €721.
Additionally, €60 for the no longer needed garage -> €781.
Next year it will be another +€74 more due to one job bike and 2024 another +€61 due to the second job bike. In total we would have €916/month more available.
Left over would be about €150,000, of which €100,000 are planned as equity. The rest is buffer.
I know some will now raise the – totally legitimate – objection, what if you only get €450,000?
Then repayment + €100k equity is still possible. The immediate buffer would of course be gone. But as I’ve already said above -> €30k-€50k would be quickly procured.
Also we still have “security” because my wife and I will inherit some euros through condos before we retire. Of course we do not count on this, but have it in mind, since that makes some scenarios easier to look at.
In 2018, a new development area was created near us, right next to our old property and 5 minutes from our current one. Back then we had loose interest but nothing concrete. Our income wasn’t so “good” yet at that time. That’s only been the case for about 2 years.
And in this new development area a house was sold now about these 3-4 months ago. This house was probably the trigger for our new thoughts.
Absolute top location for us personally. Grandma and Grandpa right next door. Daycare / school within walking distance etc. pp. For our daughter that would have been perfect. Apart from that, the location is still very good. Also land value here €340/m² but approx. 2 km from our current apartment.
Well, house was 122 m² on a 314 m² plot, detached with garage. My wife fell in love immediately, I was a bit skeptical. The price didn’t suit me and the upstairs rooms personally seemed a bit too small.
We went to see it anyway: asking price €575,000 + €12,000 for the kitchen, which could be taken over, of course through an agent. So we made an offer. That was the next point that didn’t suit me. But well… you rarely get a 100% fitting offer.
We then offered €580,000, but with the clear thought of telling the seller to tear out the kitchen. Before I pay €12k for a used kitchen, I’d rather buy a brand-new one according to my preferences for €20k. In the end, maybe they would have agreed on €5-6k, which would have been bearable. As I said, that was my plan.
We were then, according to the agent, in pole position, there were several interested parties; all had offered €580,000… but only one other couple would probably get a loan approval + we, verbally we already had the commitments.
We also had it calculated by banks, including our current bank (DSL-Bank). Everything went back and forth.
Our bank would have done it with a lien swap – €300,000 still outstanding and €240,000 at 3.6%. The rate would then be a total of €2150. €100,000 was considered equity.
It would be the same model: 15 years fixed interest followed by a building savings contract over the entire period.
The problem for many other banks was precisely the point with “equity only with sale of the condo.” I can understand that. But that’s the current status quo.
You can already tell should, would, could. In the end the agent played us all nicely off against each other with “the seller can’t decide” and “they offered 5k more, what will you do, will you offer more?”
End of the story was that the other party placed – quote – “a big shovel on top” and thus bought the house. I guess the total package was then €600,000 + kitchen + incidental costs + agent fees... Just insane.
My wife was really disappointed, I was also a little disappointed but also relieved, because the price was absolutely crazy.
Today we are looking at an existing property. But rather just out of interest. It is again an absolutely top location, a large detached house with 1200 m² plot, beautiful large garden, large forecourt with 3 garages, parking spaces etc.
However, only the ground floor is sold. Essentially an apartment with 116 m², but the plot with the garden belongs to it. The co-owner upstairs has a garage with a mini garden, all separate.
Built in 1980 and everything would have to be redone. Cost €395,000. No commission. Still, you would have to put in a good €130,000 to bring everything up to standard.
We still want to see it anyway to also clarify the circumstances, who lives upstairs? Will the upper floor be sold in the foreseeable future, etc.
We are now asking ourselves what we should do?
As said, we actually have no pressure in terms of rental apartment or unacceptable living conditions etc. We have a top apartment. But the desire for a house is currently quite big.
Should we maybe just wait? What will happen with interest rates? What will happen generally with the “world”? Russia -> Ukraine, the gas issue. What often circulates here -> keyword expropriation?! Will property tax cut a big hole in household budgets?!
Better to have a condo during this time than a detached house with a big garden?!
Currently there is still a new development planned, but it is on hold. This project would be our absolute favorite. The area would be about 200 m in a straight line from our current apartment, therefore the same location. But we don’t know if it will happen? And if yes, how long will it take to buy/build there. Easily 5,6,7 years could pass.
Will you even be able to build a house with these income conditions then? Questions upon questions
These are all questions that are currently occupying me/us. On the one hand, I would like to wait. On the other hand, the little one is getting bigger -> keyword garden.
As promised, it got a lot of text. I hope you can follow my train of thought.
I look forward to any feedback on my post. I am very happy to answer questions.
So, let’s go.
Thanks and best regards
Markus
I have been actively reading here for a few weeks and have already come across many exciting stories. Therefore, I would like to present our current situation and hope for a lively discussion.
I had already created a thread about construction planning and asked for information regarding prefab house construction with the company [URL_INTERNA=https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/allkauf-haus-erfahrungen-wer-kann-ueber-die-firma-berichten.28928/
- Allkauf Haus[/URL_INTERNA]. But that is definitely off the table now :)
Right from the start: we currently have no concrete or planned project – but we are considering it. I also fear the following text will be a bit longer and maybe somewhat confusing, since it’s really a lot. So beware.
General information about you:
[*][B]Who are you?
A small family from NRW / Bergisches Land[/B]
[*][B]How old are you?
M 39 in December / F 35[/B]
[*][B]Do you have children?
One daughter, will turn 3 in December[/B]
[*][B]Are more children planned?
No further planned[/B]
[*][B]What are your occupations?
He QMB / She industrial sales clerk[/B]
[*][B]Are you employed, self-employed, retired, homemaker, househusband etc...?
Both employed, permanent contracts
He at a small-medium family business / She at a corporation[/B]
[*][B]How many hours do you work?
He 40-45 (36 contract hours – overtime paid with +25%) / She part-time 20 hours[/B]
[B]Income and asset situation:[/B]
[*][B][B]What income do you have (gross/net)?
He approx. €6200/€4100 (tax class 3) / She approx. €1900/€1100 (TC 5) – so approx. €5200 net together
Plus bonuses / vacation pay / Christmas bonus
About €5000-5500 net extra annually
Annual salary increases for both[/B][/B]
[*][B][B]How much child benefit do you get?
€219 currently[/B][/B]
[*][B][B]Other benefits such as parental allowance, sickness benefits, etc...?
No[/B][/B]
[*][B][B]How much equity do you have?
€15k in ETFs / crypto – but should not be touched
€20k “liquid”
and now it gets speculative – new property only if the old one is sold. Expected profit €150k-€200k – details further below *2
€30k-€50k could still be raised separately[/B][/B]
[*][B][B]How much equity do you want to invest in the housing project?
Approx. €100k
Rest as buffer or for repayment of smaller contracts – details below[/B][/B]
[B][B]Housing costs:[/B][/B]
Condominium
Installment €405
Building savings plan €620
Service charges €345
Second garage rented €60 (would then drop)
Electricity €73
Mobility costs:
One new car as second car €255 (about €27k outstanding – would be paid off)
Gasoline €150 (well calculated)
Car insurance €26.67
Car tax €9.25
Main car company electric vehicle – no costs
Insurance costs:
All together €100 (legal expenses, liability, etc.)
Living expenses:
[*][B][B][LIST]
[*][B]Groceries
Don’t keep track… hard to say as we don’t really watch every euro (doesn’t mean to sound arrogant) I know it’s not exactly helpful financially. I just estimate €300
[*]Daycare/school fees (and meal money)
€90 for meals – daycare fees paid by my employer
[*]Others
Internet €45
SKY €28.50
Netflix Spotify €10 (family)
Mobile phone €30
Lottery €21
Insurances (legal expenses etc.) €100
Small loan €466 (€27k outstanding – would be paid off – possible without problems/costs -> ING)
Jobbike €135 (2 e-bikes) fall away in 07/23 and 07/24
[B
- [B][B][B]I have deliberately not listed everything in minute detail here, as many things even out. My wife also earns about €100-200/month on the side with a secondary job and I occasionally make a few euros here and there through “deals”
Both times nothing illegal or shady or anything, no worries
This is for example how my wife’s nail appointments or cocktail evenings with friends get paid.
[B]Savings:
€100 ETF for our daughter
€400 ETF retirement provision
I should also mention that I have a separate retirement plan through salary conversion, which is already included in my salary
€550 savings
[B]Income and expense totals:
[*][B][B][LIST]
[*][B]Total income
Approx. €5500/month
[*]Total expenses
Approx. €3200/month
But we have to say CURRENTLY here.
If we sell our property and build / buy new, expenses will reduce to:
3200€
- 466€ ING loan
- 255€ second car installment
- 60€ garage rent
= approx. €2400
Of course, the rate for the new property will logically increase
[*Balance
Currently €2300
[*]Of which sum is cold rent and dispensable savings (e.g. saving rate for house)
Currently €1050 savings
[B][B][B]So:
[B][B][B][B][B][B]We come from NRW – area Solingen-Remscheid-Wuppertal.
I will be 39 in December. My wife just turned 35 and our daughter will be 3 in December. No more children planned.
I have been married to my wife since 2015; we were together for over 10 years before that. In 2013 we bought a condo (price back then €132,000). We then sold it in 2018 for €185,000 and bought another condo where we currently live. There was never an intention to make a profit; at that time, an extremely good opportunity for a top property arose.
For us, it was always clear that a condo was enough. We didn’t want a house. Garden etc. – no, too much work etc. Well, as it happens. Now we have a little girl and we think -> house with a garden would be great. But it’s not only the child that triggered this, many friends/acquaintances have houses and especially celebrating in the garden in summer etc. – that desire just arose now somehow.
So here we stand now:
A brief look at our current condo
Built in 2004
4-unit house with underground parking
2 apartments downstairs with garden
2 apartments upstairs over 2 floors with huge roof terrace (good 32m²)
The apartment itself is about 120m² (roof slopes already deducted)
4 rooms
At that time approx. €310,000 was borrowed.
15 year fixed at 1.57% with subsequent building savings at 2.25% over the entire term.
Term runs until retirement. Chosen deliberately. I’m of the opinion I would have to pay rent in retirement anyway, so once I’m done at retirement age, that’s fine.
Bought in 2018 for €270,000 and put in another €85,000. (Was not necessary to that extent – but the entire attic had to be redone because there was nothing there. Just the bare concrete floor. Pipes were laid, that was it. And since we were already at it, we said, let's do everything)
Except for the windows and front door, everything is new (2018). Tiles laid everywhere, floor heating installed upstairs (was already downstairs), broke through to install a staircase, the “chicken stairs” were removed and closed off etc. pp. In scope, you could have built new.
The house/the apartment is in an absolutely top location: €340/m² land value. Right next to us is the most expensive street in town with villas. Land value there €420/m², about 100m air line. Average land value is approx. €175/m²
VERY quiet, view into green, yet everything within walking distance. Highway 5 min away.
We also feel very comfortable, good neighbors, top location etc. Please don't misunderstand.
But somehow about 3-4 months ago the thought of a HOUSE came up.
At this point a little note to *2
Currently approx. €300,000 is still outstanding on our apartment loan. The value of our condo was estimated at about €500,000. We could have gotten that. As luck would have it, from a conversation with a friend it turned out that an acquaintance is looking for an apartment there. He is from the neighboring town, desperately wants to come back. Has sold his semi-detached house and now is looking for a condo. Long story short, he viewed the apartment and bought it. So much in advance.
Therefore the initial note about equity with €150k to €200k. For a sales price of €450k, there would be queues of interested buyers.
Plan is:
Sales of condo for €500,000 = €200,000 profit
Of which ~€55,000 go towards repayment of car and ING loan. That in turn would free up €721.
Additionally, €60 for the no longer needed garage -> €781.
Next year it will be another +€74 more due to one job bike and 2024 another +€61 due to the second job bike. In total we would have €916/month more available.
Left over would be about €150,000, of which €100,000 are planned as equity. The rest is buffer.
I know some will now raise the – totally legitimate – objection, what if you only get €450,000?
Then repayment + €100k equity is still possible. The immediate buffer would of course be gone. But as I’ve already said above -> €30k-€50k would be quickly procured.
Also we still have “security” because my wife and I will inherit some euros through condos before we retire. Of course we do not count on this, but have it in mind, since that makes some scenarios easier to look at.
In 2018, a new development area was created near us, right next to our old property and 5 minutes from our current one. Back then we had loose interest but nothing concrete. Our income wasn’t so “good” yet at that time. That’s only been the case for about 2 years.
And in this new development area a house was sold now about these 3-4 months ago. This house was probably the trigger for our new thoughts.
Absolute top location for us personally. Grandma and Grandpa right next door. Daycare / school within walking distance etc. pp. For our daughter that would have been perfect. Apart from that, the location is still very good. Also land value here €340/m² but approx. 2 km from our current apartment.
Well, house was 122 m² on a 314 m² plot, detached with garage. My wife fell in love immediately, I was a bit skeptical. The price didn’t suit me and the upstairs rooms personally seemed a bit too small.
We went to see it anyway: asking price €575,000 + €12,000 for the kitchen, which could be taken over, of course through an agent. So we made an offer. That was the next point that didn’t suit me. But well… you rarely get a 100% fitting offer.
We then offered €580,000, but with the clear thought of telling the seller to tear out the kitchen. Before I pay €12k for a used kitchen, I’d rather buy a brand-new one according to my preferences for €20k. In the end, maybe they would have agreed on €5-6k, which would have been bearable. As I said, that was my plan.
We were then, according to the agent, in pole position, there were several interested parties; all had offered €580,000… but only one other couple would probably get a loan approval + we, verbally we already had the commitments.
We also had it calculated by banks, including our current bank (DSL-Bank). Everything went back and forth.
Our bank would have done it with a lien swap – €300,000 still outstanding and €240,000 at 3.6%. The rate would then be a total of €2150. €100,000 was considered equity.
It would be the same model: 15 years fixed interest followed by a building savings contract over the entire period.
The problem for many other banks was precisely the point with “equity only with sale of the condo.” I can understand that. But that’s the current status quo.
You can already tell should, would, could. In the end the agent played us all nicely off against each other with “the seller can’t decide” and “they offered 5k more, what will you do, will you offer more?”
End of the story was that the other party placed – quote – “a big shovel on top” and thus bought the house. I guess the total package was then €600,000 + kitchen + incidental costs + agent fees... Just insane.
My wife was really disappointed, I was also a little disappointed but also relieved, because the price was absolutely crazy.
Today we are looking at an existing property. But rather just out of interest. It is again an absolutely top location, a large detached house with 1200 m² plot, beautiful large garden, large forecourt with 3 garages, parking spaces etc.
However, only the ground floor is sold. Essentially an apartment with 116 m², but the plot with the garden belongs to it. The co-owner upstairs has a garage with a mini garden, all separate.
Built in 1980 and everything would have to be redone. Cost €395,000. No commission. Still, you would have to put in a good €130,000 to bring everything up to standard.
We still want to see it anyway to also clarify the circumstances, who lives upstairs? Will the upper floor be sold in the foreseeable future, etc.
We are now asking ourselves what we should do?
As said, we actually have no pressure in terms of rental apartment or unacceptable living conditions etc. We have a top apartment. But the desire for a house is currently quite big.
Should we maybe just wait? What will happen with interest rates? What will happen generally with the “world”? Russia -> Ukraine, the gas issue. What often circulates here -> keyword expropriation?! Will property tax cut a big hole in household budgets?!
Better to have a condo during this time than a detached house with a big garden?!
Currently there is still a new development planned, but it is on hold. This project would be our absolute favorite. The area would be about 200 m in a straight line from our current apartment, therefore the same location. But we don’t know if it will happen? And if yes, how long will it take to buy/build there. Easily 5,6,7 years could pass.
Will you even be able to build a house with these income conditions then? Questions upon questions
These are all questions that are currently occupying me/us. On the one hand, I would like to wait. On the other hand, the little one is getting bigger -> keyword garden.
As promised, it got a lot of text. I hope you can follow my train of thought.
I look forward to any feedback on my post. I am very happy to answer questions.
So, let’s go.
Thanks and best regards
Markus