Is this overall package fair?

Hello,

after we have now spoken with various companies for almost a year and have also dealt intensively with the topic of prefabricated houses and solid construction, we chose solid construction. Fortunately, we inherited the plot.

Now we have concrete ideas of how our dream house should look (visually anyway, our drawings were created based on this):
- House type: townhouse villa
- Size approx. 140 m²
- many and above all large windows, corner glazing
- a system for controlled ventilation with heat recovery

Now, with each conversation, we were able to sort out the providers and it is slowly getting serious :-) We have an offer from a developer who actually appeals to us. He seems serious, so far we have only heard good things about the company, the concept seems coherent, the preliminary drafts/drawings look good.

He has now presented us with an offer for our house that actually includes all the work. The house will be turnkey after construction. Only the connections for utilities, insurance, and government fees, etc. will be additional costs for us. Since we are very busy professionally, we deliberately decided against doing any work ourselves.

We personally set a limit from the beginning, which is around 200K. In addition, there are the utility connections and ancillary costs so that we would ultimately settle at about 220K.

By now, we have also heard that there are KfW70 (or even better) standards... The developer has calculated everything for us, and ultimately we have the following options:

Offer 1:
KfW 70 standard with underfloor heating, air-to-water heat pump, controlled ventilation + heat recovery, chimney connection
=> 230K

Offer 2:
No KfW70 standard, conventional Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 standard, underfloor heating, controlled ventilation + heat recovery, chimney connection, gas condensing boiler
=> 200K

Offer 3:
No KfW70 standard, conventional Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 standard, underfloor heating, controlled ventilation + heat recovery, chimney connection, air-to-water heat pump
=> 210K

At first, we had flirted with the good conditions of the KfW70 standard, but in the end, we noticed that the interest rates are not much better than the current market, so we would save only about 5000 EUR through the subsidy over the years. The additional investment for KfW70, on the other hand, is already quite a bit higher… No one can exactly say what you ultimately save annually through KfW70 compared to the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009... We have always not liked solar so far because it only pays off after many, many years (if at all).

Now I wanted to ask you what you would personally favor or what else should be considered!?

I look forward to any tips/hints.

Best regards,
Tim

Everyone sees this differently, but my view on this is: Start with your current heating costs. You probably don’t have an energy saving ordinance now and less square meters, right? Therefore, roughly the heating price will remain the same, more area but better insulated. KfW70 doesn’t mean no heating costs, just less. If you now pay even less than that, whatever the amount... how long do you have to pay this difference less to recoup the 15k additional cost?

Just as a side note, the gas connection adds about 2000€ to the 200k for the sewer connection.

Hello!

I keep reading that builders worry about minimal items like the boiler (I was the same), but haven’t considered the really big issues. Of course, if you want everything in a standard 08/15 quality, that’s not a problem.

The "nice-to-have" items include:
- electric blinds
- LAN
- satellite
- external combustion air supply
- triple glazing
- more expensive tiles/flooring
- terrace
- garden
- fences
- garage
- high-quality sanitary fixtures
- comprehensive electrical equipment
- of course a new kitchen:p
- painting work
- front door!
- staircase!

In the end, our house looks great, but it became really expensive! Oh, and some changes are much more expensive than expected – but increasing the living area by 20 sqm only cost €5,000.

The highlight was: "A little bit of sand needs to be filled in." €4,500!

Best regards,
TomTom.

Now I wanted to ask you what you would personally favor or what else should be considered…!?

Hello Tim!

To check your information, one would have to skim through the offer and the construction service description. The offered different standards can certainly vary in quality (for example, thermal insulation standard). You have not provided any information on this.

For an energy-efficient operation of the air/water heat pump, a well-insulated building envelope is essential first and foremost. Temperature difference!

Which system is to be used for the heat pump and for the controlled residential ventilation system with heat recovery?
What are the U-values of the exterior components (roof, wall, floor slab, windows, and doors)?
Is there a thermal protection certificate for a comparable building from the manufacturer?

Regards

T.H.

Hello Tim,

We personally set a limit from the beginning, which is around 200K. Added to that are the media connections, the ancillary costs, so that in the end we would settle at around 220K.

You will not manage with that, not with a slab on grade and certainly not with a basement. With this statement, I assume that your builder is offering you high-quality materials for your house construction :)

In order to properly evaluate the offers, more information is therefore needed, such as the BB, possibly additional agreements, and definitely the manufacturer specifications for the technical systems. During my last review of construction documents, it quickly became apparent that appearances can be deceptive :( Consequently, I assume a building shell Kfw 70, Daikin as an air-to-water heat pump and a Tecalor TVZ for controlled ventilation with heat recovery; if the size of the utility room allows, an integral system of air-to-water heat pump and controlled ventilation with heat recovery, also from Tecalor (around TEUR 10 without and TEUR 13 with solar system), is also conceivable.

Offer 1:
Kfw 70 standard with underfloor heating, air-to-water heat pump, controlled ventilation + heat recovery, chimney connection
=> 230K

House approx. TEUR 220 (the corner glazing, preferably over both floors, costs a lot of money; added to that is the external shading, which is also anything but cheap) plus air-to-water heat pump TEUR 5, plus TVZ TEUR 9, chimney flue TEUR 3; alternatively house plus integral system TEUR 10 or 13.

...The additional investment for KfW70, however, is somewhat larger... What you ultimately save annually through KfW70 compared to the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009, no one can tell you exactly...

Your house becomes a KfW efficiency house through a well-insulated building shell and one/possibly several shares of renewable energies; depending on 70, 55, or lower. At least the building shell should accordingly meet the KfW 70 standard; the best energy is the one that is not needed! It is not that expensive to realize KfW 70, provided the building shell is right from the start.

One more urgent note: you will not get by with TEUR 20 for ancillary costs; therefore, as a precaution, plan TEUR 30, better TEUR 35 for this position plus a cushion for extra wishes such as higher-quality sanitary fittings or a new kitchen ;)

Air-to-water heat pump => air-to-water heat pump
Heat recovery => heat recovery
Utility room => utility room
BB => construction description
TEUR => thousand euros

Best regards

Hello,

first of all, thank you very much for your opinions. You are right, I had only mentioned general things and so far no further details, I’ll try to figure it out from the documents and post it here now :-)

The following notes/details were not included in the original post:
- Turnkey house (including painting etc.) without basement, but on a slab foundation
- Exterior walls: 36.5 cm
- Interior walls: 11.5 cm
- Insulation of the entire house including attic according to the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009
- Windows with insulated glazing (Ug 0.7)
- Window sills granite / Jura marble
- Wooden front door (approx. 2200 gross)
- Wooden staircase with railing
- Wall tiles 20x25 (approx. 28 EUR gross)
- Floor tiles 20x20 (approx. 34 EUR gross)
- Laminate (approx. 22 EUR gross)
- Terrace (27 sqm)
- Controlled ventilation system Bu derus Logavent HRV21
- If heat pump, then it would be the following: LA 9TU (Dimpl ex)
- The equipment (heating, sanitary, floors) is already upper-middle class, so we didn’t want luxury, but also not the cheapest.


What is not included in the offer:
- Outdoor facilities
- Garages
- Fireplace (only the connection + two-flue chimney)
- Entrance platform
- Development + fees for authorities


@perlenmann:
You are right, at the moment we live in a 20-year-old house, windows are 15 years old and insulation is correspondingly at the standard from 15 years ago... in addition, the apartment is smaller with 80 sqm. Are there no pages or examples where you can roughly see what others with comparable houses according to KfW70, Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 standard etc. consume...? I have already included connections like gas etc. in our incidental costs of 20k.


@TomTom:
You are right, but we specifically wanted to first set a sum (200K to 220K) and thereby finance a turnkey house according to our wishes. The outdoor facilities, garage etc. will come later, gradually :-)

SAT+LAN is included in the offer for 4 connections each, as is the terrace.

The electric blinds are really nice, but we have already decided that we will only take blinds on the south side and in the bedroom, everything else we would never use anyway. And electric is really not bad, but surely costs a huge extra effort, so you rather raise/lower the blinds manually... or is it not that expensive compared to the blinds?

Do you mean a chimney with "ext. combustion air supply"? The offer would include a two-flue chimney?


@ T.H.:
I will inquire about how the other insulations look - also because of the thermal protection certificate - many thanks for the hint. I have summarized the other details above - is the LW heat pump good?


@Bauexperte:
Thank you very much for all the suggestions.
As I read it, the provider told us the ventilation system will be installed in the HAR (room is approx. 8 sqm). It can also be installed in the attic, but then it would have to be better insulated, which would cost about 3500 EUR extra (since currently only Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 insulation).

Does that mean if I add a solar system to the ventilation system, only a relatively "small" extra cost of about 3000 EUR arises? I had always considered this item to be much higher...

You are right about the building envelope according to KfW70, that really sounds sensible.


First of all thank you very much, I will continue to read / get familiar and maybe you have more tips / hints...?!

Best regards,
Tim