Insulation for heat pump

  • Erstellt am 2015-10-06 12:10:06

Manu1986

2015-10-06 12:10:06
  • #1
Hello everyone,

as a construction layman, one is dependent on information from the internet and recommendations from professionals. With the latter, I always like to hear a second opinion and hope to find it here.

The following question:

In general, one often reads/hears that a heat pump works particularly (or only?) efficiently in "well-insulated" houses. "Well" is probably a matter of definition again, but I have concrete numbers, facts, and a brand of the heat pump with which, hopefully, one can get to the bottom of the question whether the system offered to us by the builder makes sense:

It is a solid house as a semi-detached house with just under 160 sqm spread over the ground floor, upper floor, and converted attic. There is also a basement, one room of which is used as living space.



A Stiebel Eltron LWZ 303i with integrated ventilation system is to be used as an air-water heat pump, and subsequently, the initial question arises, whether this setup with the mentioned heat pump is sensible and efficient?

Perhaps as an additional complement: With this setup, one would reach KfW 70, which, however, has recently become "standard" and is no longer subsidized. Of course, the provider could also take measures to achieve KfW 55, but he advises against it because the additional costs are not in relation to the savings and the subsidies are also not much (interest-) cheaper. That makes sense to me so far, only, as mentioned, the reports unsettle because one should pay attention to "good insulation" when using heat pumps, and we do not know where "good" begins or ends.

In this context, I would have one more question: Would it perhaps even be sufficient to rely “only” on a 36 cm Poroton brick instead of 24 cm Poroton bricks with 12 cm ETICS?
 

oleda222

2015-10-06 12:32:08
  • #2
You can only really evaluate this after a heating load calculation according to DIN 12831 has been carried out.

However, I am skeptical whether it is a good decision to install an air-to-water heat pump in a Kfw 70 house.
 

Saruss

2015-10-06 14:16:26
  • #3
Interestingly, with a heat pump, the more poorly insulated the building is (compared to other heat generators), the more you save with proper design. But otherwise, for low overall costs it is always!! better to insulate a lot, because this naturally reduces energy consumption. I am pretty sure that an air-to-water heat pump works in a Kfw70 house (I know many who have one), only I would avoid an air-to-air heat pump. The heating load will probably be in the range of 5-7kW depending on details (at around -14C or so), estimated on the high side; there are already devices that provide enough power without electric resistance heating even when it's cold. No idea where the location is, but I can imagine it.
 

Bauexperte

2015-10-06 16:39:41
  • #4
Good day,

KfW 70 has only been the "standard" since 01.01.2016; funding is still available until 31.03.16. The form 153 is sufficient for this; it must be received by KfW "before" the end of March 16.

In connection with a Stiebel LWZ 303i or also a Tecalor Integrale (also Stiebel and identical in construction), the step to KFW 55 is only moderate. Another type of brick - e.g. T8 - insulation beneath the base plate, as well as independent expert supervision must be additionally purchased. Possibly interesting if the new KfW funding conditions are to be used.

Economically speaking, it currently still makes no sense where the KfW 70 efficiency house status is supported. The difference between 55 and 70 means you possibly “save” about €100.00/120.00 per year; depending on your shower habits.

It looks different if Kfw 70 currently becomes the standard energy-saving regulation house. The step from the energy-saving regulation to 55 is moderate; however, the savings in energy costs compared to the standard remain unchanged ;-)

Rhineland greetings on the go
Building expert
 

Rübe1

2015-10-31 18:16:12
  • #5
So, the 303 is a discontinued model, basically leftover stock. When you run that through the computer, you realize that the box is too small. With the normal energy saving ordinance standard of the building, you end up with a heating demand of roughly 7kW at that size. But the pump only delivers 4.2. Now you can guess three times where the rest comes from...

Conclusion: Heating system not sensible. You would need the bigger pump, the 504, which can handle it. However, the price difference is obviously huge.
 

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