Got a house offer, seems too expensive for us!

Hello everyone.

We are currently deeply "caught up" in planning our construction project.

Key data:

Land purchase (489 m²): 170k €
Contingency for incidental costs: 30k €
Remaining budget for house + basement: 250k €

House = prefab single-family house in timber frame construction 8.16 x 10.57 m (external dimension)
Basement = partly a living basement
Location = Bavaria district

After the planning appointment with prefab house manufacturer XY, we have now received an offer as detailed below.

What we now consider "critical" is the following:

Base price house + basement without optional packages / items = 231,000 €
Additionally (without which we do not really want to build):

[*]1900 € wood cladding
[*]6100 material package (since interior doors are included)

That makes, according to simple calculation, 239,000 € for the house.
And we were not yet at the sample selection, where I expect there will be quite a bit added (we have no "high" demands but a minimum level of comfort should definitely be included).

We will never make it with 250k €?!
Basically, the whole offer seems relatively "expensive" to us.
Could maybe someone nice from you have a look at it and let us know if with our assessment "pretty expensive" we are right or wrong?

That would really help us a lot! Thanks in advance!!!

Here are the data from the offer:

Basement:

External dimensions of the house: 10.57 x 8.16 m
Clear raw construction height: 2.50 m
(Measured from top edge of base plate to bottom edge of basement ceiling)

The offer calculation assumes a subsoil of soil class 3 – 5; soil pressure at least 200 KN/m² and maximum groundwater level of 30 cm below foundation slab.

The following services are included in the offer price:

String grid:
Creating the string rough grid according to the input plan and site plan.
Surveying the string grid by a construction-side surveyor.

Concrete work:

Reinforced concrete slab:

[*] thickness = 25 cm, double reinforced according to static requirements, including separating layer concrete C 25/30
[*]Embed ring earth electrode according to regulations (one connecting flag)
[*]Supply and install construction joint tape as a sealing measure

Concrete walls:

[*] External walls thickness approx. 24cm, formwork and concrete C25/30 (surface smooth formwork)
[*]18.00 linear meters load-bearing interior walls thickness 18cm, formwork and concrete C20/25 (surface smooth formwork)

Concrete ceiling:

[*] thickness 18 cm made of filigree ceiling, poured with in-situ concrete C20/25 including reinforcement according to static requirements.

Openings:

[*]Opening for pipe penetrations in the basement ceiling executed in sizes up to 15 x 25 cm

Reinforced concrete staircase:

[*] 1 piece. Quarter or half-turned, rough concrete without covering and railing

Windows and light wells:

[*]2 pieces ISO tilt-turn windows: 100x60 cm supply and installation
[*]2 pieces ISO tilt-turn windows: 100x100 cm supply and installation
[*]5 pieces PVC light wells 100/120/40, fitting the window openings, supply and installation
[*]1 piece concrete light well supply and set width = 100, height = 120, matching the 100/60 and 100/80 windows including grate

Interior work:

Openings:

[*]Sealing ceiling penetrations in the basement ceiling after execution of the works
[*]Sealing wall penetrations of the basement interior walls

Exterior work:

Plinth plaster:

[*] Up to 40 cm high with bonding plaster

Exterior insulation:

[*] Thermal insulation on the exterior walls with 100 mm Styrodur (approx. 101 m²)
[*] Thermal insulation under the base plate with 100 mm Styrodur (approx. 86 m²)

Not included in the offer price:

[*]Surveying work, e.g. string grid surveying by an engineering office (required if a surveying by authorities is requested or boundary points are missing).
[*]Drainage works can be offered upon submission of the drainage plan.
[*]Earthworks
[*]Waterproof execution of light wells (necessary if the maximum groundwater level rises near windows).
[*]Construction site setup such as construction electricity and water

Price basement: 44,398.70 €

Offer prefab house:

External / base dimensions: 10.57 x 8.16 m
Built-up area: 86 m²
Roof shape: 38 degrees gable roof as carpentry timber frame
Knee wall: 1 m (raw construction height!)

Included items:

[*]The XY exterior wall: THERMO-PROTECT premium

XY prefab wall elements are manufactured as part of our THERMO-PROTECT System® as energy-saving walls in large panel construction with a wall thickness of 34.3 cm and are not grid-bound. U-value: 0.14 W/(m²*K). A hand-applied, seamless premium plaster, according to XY color palette, completes the exterior wall. See also B + L point 1

[*]Knee wall height = top edge raw floor to top edge purlin 37 m²
[*]French balcony, from Haas palette in metal design, galvanized (1 piece equals 1.25 l.m.) 4 pieces
[*]Roof structure:
Standard generous roof overhangs give each XY house a personal architectural note. Gable or shed roofs receive 65 cm eaves side and 50 cm gable side overhangs. Standard purlins are executed in laminated timber at no extra cost. The characteristic snow load sk is designed up to 1.25 KN/m².
[*]Dormer with a width of 3.25 m 1 piece
[*]Roof insulation:
Insulation 240 mm, WLG 040 supplied and installed between rafters up to the horizontal purlin beams as well as between purlin beams, including rafter design - 240 x 80 mm!
[*]Roof covering:
With 30-year manufacturer warranty, optionally in tile red, classic red, brown or granite colors and a diffusion-open underlay against dust and drifting snow, as well as a counter-batten. The wind suction protection according to DIN 1055-4 for wind zones 1 and 2 is already included. See also B + L point 8
[*]Roof drainage:
The roof drainage is executed according to B + L point 11, in titanium zinc or plastic (4 colors to choose from).
[*]House entrance element with 17-point locking
An attractive front door system gives your XY house a personal touch. Standard doors are made of solid wood, plastic, or aluminum. All front doors are equipped with the unique 17-point locking system, with 2 pieces of 6-pack safe bolts and 2 swing hooks, as well as a reliable lever-out protection by twin bolt locking. Concealed safe hinges (standard for aluminum front door) and a continuous locking strip additionally ensure optimal burglary protection! Extremely weather-resistant high-performance materials and a high-tech profile with all-around seals ensure optimal thermal protection. See also B + L point 14
[*]The XY standard staircase:
The solid wood staircase is included from the variant ground floor fully wall-sided - attic expansion prepared. The execution includes mortised beech wood treads. See also B + L point 13
[*]Contrary to the construction and delivery description, at the customer's request, all windows and terrace door elements on the ground and attic floors (from Haas group production) are standard equipped with a high-quality plastic profile HX 80 including thermal insulation glazing (7-chamber system with 3 sealing levels) in white. The low-maintenance frame and glazing bead cover as well as the narrow external view for high light incidence ensure excellent comfort and optic. With the Secustic handle you get a patented locking mechanism system with audible security. The standard high-quality thermal insulation glazing is triple glazing with Ug value 0.7 W/m²K.
[*]Window or patio door in 2-leaf version with or without transom, for plastic, wood or plastic/aluminum windows. 4 pieces
[*]Roller shutter:
All windows and patio doors on ground and attic floors receive, up to a width of 1.45 m, plastic roller shutters with crank gear in preferred colors white, gray, or beige. Your advantage: shutter boxes are better insulated compared to conventional roller shutters with straps. Round arch windows, staircase windows, and triangular windows do not receive roller shutters. All roller shutter boxes are flush integrated in the wall (no boxes protruding into the room!). See also B + L point 17.3
[*]The XY interior wall:
The interior wall has great load-bearing capacity due to its multi-layer wall construction and is therefore statically loadable at any point (double plasterboard!). The interior walls are approx. 14.5 cm thick and equipped with a 70.0 mm sound and thermal insulation layer. On the strong wooden frame construction, on both sides 13 mm wood-based panels P4 and 12.5 mm drywall are attached. See also B + L point 18
[*]Electrical preparation:
For electrical installation preparation, 77 connection points and airtight empty boxes are pre-installed in walls as standard. Furthermore, empty conduits for your wall lights for indoor and outdoor use are included. Additionally, 2 empty conduits and boxes for TV antenna and 1 empty conduit/box for telephone system are prepared. The sub-distributor housing is installed in the ground floor and is already included as standard.
[*]If construction-side work (e.g. attic insulation, screed insulation, basement or floor slab insulation, heating system and building services etc.) is done, it must comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance and the Renewable Energy Heat Act. The required energy demand certificate is issued by XY prefab construction company.
[*]You will receive according to the construction and delivery description (see point 22) top-class air/water heat pump heating technology:
Viessmann Vitocal 300 A Type AWCI-AC 301.A. (3.0 - 9.0 kW modulating nominal heating capacity at A 2° / W 35°C) air/water heat pump with adjacent 300 l hot water storage suitable for hot water demand for 6 persons (60 l with 50°C per person per day) including electric auxiliary heating, without cooling function.
[*]Including 130 m² underfloor heating on ground and attic floors with individual room control. Suitable for single-family houses up to 220 m² floor space from top edge basement ceiling/base plate. Please note that for warranty reasons the screed installation must be carried out by XY company. The heat pump is equipped with comfortable control with integrated energy balancing and heat quantity meter. Furthermore, the electric connection of the heat pump is already included. If the electric metering system is included in XY's services, the necessary extension of the metering cabinet including tariff wiring for the heat pump electricity will also be performed by XY. The heat pump is suitable for indoor installation and will be installed in the basement or ground floor—house technology room using corner installation. Outside air is ensured by thermally insulated air ducts through wall penetrations prepared on-site in the basement and 2 light wells mounted on-site with a minimum depth of 43 cm. In the ground floor the wall penetrations and stainless steel grilles on the exterior wall are already included. Possible noise emissions must be considered when planning light wells on-site.
[*]At the explicit request of the builder, the standard controlled [B]Vaillant[/B] ventilation system, Vaillant recoVair 275 or 350, included in the 02/2011 construction and delivery description Trend, is omitted. Please note that in this case you must ensure the necessary ventilation intervals by multiple daily airing and sufficiently remove moisture (from occupants’ breathing, cooking, washing, new building moisture, etc.), carbon dioxide (CO2), odors, etc.
[*]Sanitary basic installation:
Pipe distribution for cold and hot water; drains up to bottom edge of basement ceiling with 2 ventilation pipes.
Connections for up to 8 fixtures in one line to the attic.
Garden water line up to 5 m pipe supply with outside water tap;
Cold water distribution with connection from water meter; fine filter and pressure reducer; branches for domestic water boiler and cold water line; washing machine connection with siphon.
[*]Electrical installation up to 150 m² living area:
Complete electrical installation on ground and attic floors including meter cabinet and power application (as described in point 25 of construction and delivery description) and the forward-looking HomeWay multimedia technology.
[*]Connection line or box for construction-side electric towel heater
[*]You receive one HomeWay multi-function socket for SAT/Cable/LAN/TAE as addition to the standard equipment according to construction and delivery description. The proportional distribution position and cabling are already included. In total, 4 multimedia connections are included.
[*]Ceiling mounting at floor separating ceiling: mounting of supplied drywall panels on ground floor ceiling
[*]Ceiling mounting attic slopes: supply and installation of substructure, foil and drywall panels on the underside of rafters and horizontal purlin beams.
[*]Screed for underfloor heating:
Screed on the ground floor for heating technology with underfloor heating according to item 28 of B + L.
[*]Screed for underfloor heating:
Screed on the attic floor for heating technology with underfloor heating according to item 28 of B + L.
[*]Interior window sills:
Interior window sill made of Bianco Carrara CD marble, optionally also in Jura yellow or spruce wood, depth = 20 cm, supplied and installed.
[*]Bathroom - 5 fixtures:
Bathroom with 2 washbasins, WC, shower and bathtub including tiling work as described in point 31 of the construction and delivery description, completely installed.
[*]WC - 2 fixtures:
Guest toilet with WC and washbasin including tiling work as described in point 31 of the construction and delivery description, completely installed.

Subtotal house: 177,867 €

[*]The electrical installation in the basement is surface mounted.
[*]Underfloor heating completely installed in the basement in the rooms: 1 room
[*]Drain pipes are functionally connected from the lower edge basement ceiling to the basement floor to the construction-side drainage, maximum 3 pieces
[*]Screed including thermal insulation in the basement, including moisture barrier, if performed with construction-side insulation under the basement slab

Subtotal finishing trades in the basement 8,142 €

Offer price with all services listed in the offer and 12 months fixed price guarantee: 186,009 €

All price information includes the statutory VAT of 19% and refers exclusively to the XY energy-saving house type Young & Creative 100!

This offer is valid until 01.04.2012, thereafter non-binding!
Travel and transport costs free to the construction site!

Optional additional costs:

[*]Material package: - interior finishing 01/2012
Floor coverings, interior doors as well as wall and ceiling coverings at XY special price! (Without tiles for bathroom and WC!) Please refer to the flyer: Material package - interior finishing, which is part of the contract for exact scope.
[*]Electrical roller shutter drive up to 2 m element width with individual and central control 316 € / piece
[*]Electrical roller shutter drive up to 2 m element width with individual switch (without central control) 203 € / piece
[*]Plastering work (quality level Q2 - painter-ready): 6,023 €

What expectations do you have? Is someone supposed to check an offer here for "free"? The building services heating/DHW/ventilation is quite funny though

best regards

There's no way we'll get out of this with 250k €!? Basically, the whole offer seems relatively "expensive" to us. Could maybe someone nice from your side take a look and let us know if we're right or wrong with our assessment of "pretty expensive"?

Without having read all the details of the offer, that sounds relatively "realistic" and not really overly expensive... House + basement for 250k makes sense if you want this or that extra after all... But why did you decide to do without ventilation? Do you really want to ventilate by hand several times a day and risk mold growth?

I consider the offer to be extremely realistic if you have not included the ancillary construction costs in the house price. If the buffer is intended for that, add at least another 10,000 to it.

In addition, you still have to calculate: disposal of the excavation, base plaster, and outdoor facilities. These are the usual suspects that I have not seen with you either. And everything will certainly become a bit more expensive. I have never experienced anything becoming cheaper after the offer was submitted.
Of course, it all depends on what you want or have to do because of the development plan/statics. Are the windows sufficient for you?
Are you building with KfW ... if yes, it may also become more expensive because of that.

Additionally, I advise you to have some cash on hand so you don’t have to run to the bank for every little thing.

But bottom line: realistic offer. Especially since wages in Bavaria are significantly higher than elsewhere. We moved from BW to the Palatinate, and here the wage level has shifted considerably in our favor, and it is cheaper to have another company lay the floor than the house provider.

Regarding the ventilation system: Absolutely install one. You will get an almost 100% airtight house. Every shower, cooking pasta, and drying laundry will increase the humidity in your house. And if you don’t really ventilate completely 3-4 times a day, mold will eventually develop in the wet rooms.

In addition, a good ventilation system has several advantages: fresh air in the house, controlled exhaust air, heat recovery, dust filter, and if you want it very luxurious... air conditioning function (although that contradicts efficient building).

What expectations do you have? Should someone check an offer here for "free"? The building services heating/DHW/ventilation is actually quite funny

regards.

Expectations? A "rough estimate" feedback like from Shism (thanks) would already help us. Having the offer checked by an independent construction supervisor is scheduled for the week. I just thought that someone here could say whether it even makes sense to pursue the whole thing with the offer or if it is fundamentally unrealistically expensive (then the planning regarding financing would look a bit different).

What do you mean by?
"The building services heating/DHW/ventilation is actually quite funny"
In what way "funny"?

without having read all the details of the offer it sounds relatively "realistic" and not really overpriced...

House + basement for 250k is about right if you do want this or that extra...

But why did you decide to do without the ventilation? Do you really want to ventilate manually several times a day and risk mold growth?

Hmm ... thanks first of all for your feedback.

I was just a bit surprised that it still costs that "much" (last year there was a statement from Bauexperte, I think, of 270k for a solid house + basement + possibly (finished) garage including incidental costs).

Regarding ventilation system: We don’t have one. The topic was not discussed at all in the conversation, it’s just now listed like that in the offer. According to the salesperson of the house builder company, replacing the planned heating system with one including ventilation automation would mean about €6,500 additional costs.

I consider the offer extremely realistic if you did not include incidental construction costs in the house price. If the buffer is for that, add at least 10,000 more.

Incidental construction costs are not included or planned in the house price, correct. So should we rather plan a buffer for incidental construction costs of around 40k?

additionally, you have to calculate: disposal of excavation, base plaster and outdoor area. These are the usual suspects that I have not seen with you either.
And it will certainly get a bit more expensive. I have never experienced something getting cheaper after the offer was submitted.
Of course, it all depends on what one wants or must do due to the development plan/statics. Are the windows sufficient for you?
Are you building with KfW ... if yes, it might get more expensive again because of that.

I also advise you to have some cash in reserve so you don’t have to run to the bank for every little thing.

But bottom line: realistic offer. Especially since wages are significantly higher in Bavaria than elsewhere. We moved from BW to the Palatinate, and here the wage level has shifted significantly in our favor, and it is cheaper to have another company lay the floor than the house supplier.

Regarding ventilation system: Definitely install one. You will get an almost 100% airtight house. Every shower, cooking pasta and drying laundry will increase the humidity in your house. And if you don’t really ventilate completely 3-4 times daily, mold will eventually occur in the wet rooms.

Additionally, a good ventilation system has several advantages: fresh air in the house, controlled exhaust air, heat recovery, dust filter, and if you want to be luxurious... climate function (although that speaks against efficient building).

Thanks for your detailed help!

-----------------------------------

Sorry if the request sounded too demanding, that was actually not meant that way but merely a desperate attempt to find out whether the offer roughly seems realistic or much too expensive / too cheap.

Many thanks!
Andi

now I only see it: 350 € per square meter of land... Or have you already included the 5% tax and 2% notary fees. Possibly also include the realtor fees

Here in Karlsruhe we have prices from 290 - 500 € per sqm. So it was not hard for us to switch 20 minutes to the Palatinate... 100 € per sqm and in January "only" 3.5% real estate transfer tax