Experiences with renovating a farmhouse?

Hello everyone,

I’ll admit that I am a complete layman when it comes to (re)construction planning and am grateful for any constructive advice. About the situation:

My parents own a former farm. Agriculture has not been practiced for at least two generations. The building consists of a main house of about 10x15 meters (built in the 19th century) and an equally large attached barn (built in 1928). There are no immediate neighbors on a 25,000 sqm large plot – most of which is designated as green space.

Currently, there are 3 apartments in the building:
Parents’ apartment in the main house upper floor.
Vacant apartment in the main house basement.
Small apartment of my brother in the attic of the barn.
The entire upper floor was basically converted by my grandfather/father on their own and was formerly a "hayloft."

A new building in the exterior area is almost excluded (no designated building land but "exterior area").

Some considerations:
Permanently 3 households on the premises. The layout would largely remain the same. Before we even consider whether to renovate or demolish the main house, we would like to know – how do you even start such a project?

We have no contacts with our rather strict building authority. There are almost no documents about the house in the city’s building archive. However, it does exist on the city’s development plan (exterior area).

- Are there legal restrictions on having 3 households living permanently on one site, where previously only my parents lived?
- Could there still be penalties or similar for the self-converted apartments (we don’t want to wake sleeping dogs)?
- Would you look for an architect right away and clarify everything through them (including legal matters), or can some things be prepared/carried out independently?

At first, we are not really concerned about details like insulation of the old building or similar, but rather how or with what to even begin? As mentioned, I’m very grateful for any constructive thoughts!

Best regards,
Matze

- Are there legal restrictions on three parties living permanently on one property where previously only my parents lived?

That sounds exactly like the farmyard we bought at the beginning of this year, except that everything is in one residential unit.
First of all, if you don’t remove any load-bearing walls or extend the building envelope and there is no monument protection, you can renovate without a building permit, so you don’t need to ask anyone.

If nowhere it is recorded that there are three residential units or the expanded living space in the barn, and if it was converted sometime in the last decades, the authorities can initially cause problems if you inquire. What does the building insurance say? How many residential units and what area are insured and since when? The documents are usually available.

Otherwise, you can also convert non-heated spaces not used for residential purposes in the outdoor area into living space. For this, however, you must basically apply for a change of use, like a building permit. Here it depends on the state building code of your federal state how many residential units are generally allowed. In Schleswig-Holstein (SH), for example, up to five residential units are allowed. They can be approved, but the municipality can object. For example, if supply and disposal are not guaranteed, or if nature or landscape protection or water protection oppose it. An exception is cultural monuments, where there must be a compelling reason.
In short: Depending on the state building code, up to five residential units can be approved, even in the outdoor area.
Demolition and new construction or changes/extensions of the building envelope are different cases; these are generally not approved in the outdoor area (except for outbuildings).

- Could there still be penalties or similar for the self-converted apartments (we don’t want to wake sleeping dogs)

As mentioned, it depends on the year. At the end of the 19th century, especially in rural areas, buildings were often erected without permits. The apartment in the barn is critical. The building authority can theoretically demand a demolition or require it to be approved retroactively.

- Would one look for an architect immediately and clarify everything through them (including legal matters), or can certain things be prepared/carried out independently?

If you have no idea about the work to be carried out, I would contact an architect experienced in renovating old buildings as a planner and neutral mediator for the trades. If you want to claim funding for the renovation (KfW, BEG), they should also be an energy consultant, with the corresponding additional qualification in the case of a monument. They can usually also tell you directly about the approval situation at your building authority.

Do you not have to be privileged in outdoor areas, i.e. have a reason such as forestry or agriculture? I’m not sure if I’m putting this together correctly, but I have the impression that you actually have to prove this (forestry, animal husbandry, or similar). There could be problems if this has not been carried out for 2 generations....

All my thoughts are like says I would clarify the financial situation in advance, what is possible etc. Besides, it seems that you are not the owner, but your father. Aha, it says so there as well. So, who wants to build there? Who wants to invest? A tax advisor should be consulted as well (inheritance, transfers and such)

Don’t you have to be privileged in the outer area, i.e. have a reason such as forestry or agriculture? I’m not sure if I’m getting this right, but I have the sense that you actually have to prove it (forestry, animal husbandry or similar). Could be problems if that hasn’t been practiced for 2 generations....

Yes, I have the same feeling. At least when you buy. It would have to be some kind of business that you cannot use in the inner area

My opinion on that? Just keep quiet for now.

I read outdoor area, illegally created living space, no reason for any privileging. If you now want to just initiate something, demolition threatens. Nothing more, nothing less.

Therefore: Out of the forum, consult a professional (architect, specialist lawyer for construction law). Especially if your building authority is strict.

In outdoor areas, do you not have to be privileged, i.e. have a reason such as forestry or agriculture?

Could cause problems if it has not been carried out for 2 generations....

In the case of privileged use in outdoor areas, it is also possible to build new buildings on designated residential and commercial areas if the need requires it. Otherwise, the above-mentioned specifications apply, differing in detail and number of residential units depending on the state building regulations.
If the apartment in the barn and also the apartment in the upper floor were expanded during the period of privileged use, that is already good for you, but I would not scare the dogs unless it is necessary.