Costs for heat pump and photovoltaic in 2024 in small old buildings

Hello,

we plan to equip our old building with a heat pump and photovoltaics by 2028. Currently, we heat with gas and have a consumption of about 7,000 kWh/a; the gas heating system dates from 2010. Since the end of 2023, we also have solar thermal on the facade; I cannot yet say what savings this brings. The house has 88 m2 over 3 floors, built in 1921, facade insulation from 1993, insulation to the basement from 2023, and roof insulation from 2017. The roof is a hip roof with 3 sides, one facing southeast, one south, and one southwest, with sun from early to late. We have left space here for photovoltaics, which is why the solar thermal is mounted on the south facade. On the ground floor (about 37 m2) we have underfloor heating, and on the other two floors, radiators from 2017.

There are many here who know well about heat pumps. What would you currently calculate for here in 2024 and what kind of system would roughly be appropriate? We need to plan this long-term and would therefore be grateful for a rough estimate. Our plumbing company is totally overloaded and we are not very satisfied with them; we therefore do not want to ask them – since the project is still a few years away, I don’t want to involve another company at this point.

I realize that many things are still unclear. Nevertheless, I would appreciate answers.

we plan to equip our old building with a heat pump and photovoltaics by 2028.

Currently, there is a gold rush and rip-off mood among companies, so we are waiting until 2027; new super-duper devices come out every year. Your new device is just being developed.

At the moment, there is a gold rush and rip-off mood among the companies,
that’s why we are waiting until 2027, new super-duper devices come out every year.
Your new device is just being developed

Yes, that’s also coming, something for old buildings is apparently in the pipeline. Nevertheless, I would be interested to know what you would calculate today. Because we can’t only find out in 2027 that it costs €50,000 if we want to do it in 2028^^. I would start looking for companies at the end of 2026 so that it’s done by 2028.

Heat pumps become cheaper when the subsidy is discontinued. There are simply not enough customers for 50K€. The internet price is a guideline, the triple price is not justified (but the Q7 has to be paid monthly, grin)

I understand that many things are still unclear here. Nevertheless, I would be grateful for answers.

So - as of today you can or must expect from €20k upwards. Before subsidies! I just read an offer: replacement of an old gas heating system with a Panasonic heat pump. All-in offer from the craftsman €19.9k to be exact. Especially Asians like Panasonic have been offered significantly more for some time - Richter&Frenzel seems to be doing well as a wholesaler and supporting many craftsmen who want to move away from the far too overpriced (German) devices. P.S. The Asians currently have delivery times of 2-5 working days. New models directly with propane as a refrigerant.

I would start looking for companies at the end of 2026, so that it is done by 2028.

That is nonsense. Way too much lead time. Many companies now only have weeks as lead time, but no longer years. Heat pump manufacturers are partially operating short-time work because the initial hype due to the far too high margins of the companies is already over again. On the other hand, production capacities are being built up endlessly. Either look in mid-27 so that you are prepared for the winter or then in winter 27/28 so that the new heating system can come after the heating period.

The house has 88m2 on 3 floors,

I know you have a small old building. But I did not expect floors that small.

Handically skilled?
But I think that was not the case with you, if I remember correctly.
Technically and price/performance-wise, I can recommend the Panasonic Aquarea "Geisha". In the new generation "L" as a Hydrosplit with propane (R290) as the refrigerant and now also in a discreet black look and quieter:
Outdoor unit with refrigeration circuit and heat exchanger - only supply/return water flows in there, and of course electricity;
Indoor unit with 3-way valve for hot water preparation and all other parts as well as the new hot water storage directly underneath the device is truly plug and play and no German manufacturer can compete on price, and from an installation point of view it is very well solved.
Incidentally, Panasonic manufactures most of the heat pumps or compressors for this worldwide and the series is absolutely mature and regarding the key figures on paper AND in reality, excellent.

No, I don’t get anything from Panasonic. I have now seen two acquaintances operating the units with data on site (generation H and J) and my own generation J (because propane is not allowed at the installation site) is coming this summer, and for my mother-in-law the L next year.

Price, if no radiators are exchanged:
Material with everything (Pana combo indoor module + outdoor unit 5kW is around €6,500) €8,000 gross.
You do the base and gravel bed yourself and
for the installation realistically 2 people, maximum 2 days, so 2*2*8*100€ = €3,200, (in your case, without radiator exchange)
plus one day for the electrician: €1,000,
planning and construction supervision including commissioning and explanation by EEE (or other competent person), 3 days = €3,000.
Totals approximately €15,000.
But for the boss’s Benz/Porsche another €5,000 on top, for which the subsidy goes down.

You get subsidies if the work is carried out by a specialist company (possibly accompanied by EEE): 30% basic, +5% for propane gas, +20% if your gas heating is 20 years or older - so 35-55% or even more if in the two calendar years before the year prior to the application (so 2021/2022) your household had less than €40,000 taxable income on average (as stated on your tax assessment).

The most important thing during the conversion: leave out everything that can be left out (buffer storage for example, and definitely no combination buffer), no individual room control or at least 80% of the heating circuits/radiators always on, hydraulic balancing method B = room-by-room heating load and adjustment of flow rates, possibly also enlarge radiators (only the highest required temperature in the circuit is important - that must go down), no mixers (mixers = water too warm and can be colder) and size the heat pump correctly - in your case without calculation: at most the smallest heat pump, i.e., 5 kW.

This can either be done by a competent specialist company (very rarely), a good EEE (sometimes), or an experienced planning company (booked out and expensive): Always critically question the result until you understand it yourself.