Can we achieve KfW70 with this house?

  • Erstellt am 2012-02-02 09:58:51

Benjih

2012-02-02 09:58:51
  • #1
Dear forum community!

We are planning the new construction of a single-family house. The house should ideally meet the KfW 70 standard in order to receive the corresponding subsidies. We have decided to equip the house in such a way that a high heating demand does not arise in the first place. So we want a lot of insulation, little high-tech.

Now the question for us is whether we can achieve KfW 70 with the following construction/design:

Solid construction, no basement, 1.5 stories, gable roof, 141 sqm according to DIN, approximately square: 9.14m x 9.83m Wall structure: 17.5 Poroton, 14 cm insulation, gap, 12.5 cm clinker Windows: 5-chamber frame (70mm), triple glazing, exterior muntins Roof: up to the attic ceiling and in the ceiling to the attic 240mm mineral wool WLG 035 Floor: 100mm perimeter insulation under the foundation slab, 110mm polystyrene, WLG 035 under the screed Heating: gas condensing boiler with underfloor heating throughout the house Ventilation: a total of three decentralized fans with heat recovery (Meltem) Gable ends face north (small windows) and south (large windows) Is KfW 70 feasible? Best regards Ben
 

€uro

2012-02-02 10:42:40
  • #2
Hello,
Good approach!
Cannot be answered like this. If the Ht value is sufficient (15% rule), certainly, otherwise you will have to reluctantly purchase a solar thermal system (EEWG) that is not very economical in single-family houses.
Whether the Qp'' value is sufficient cannot be generally assessed like this; it would have to be recalculated.
Not a good idea! If ventilation, then done properly => Central controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery.
What does your planner say about this?

Best regards
 

Benjih

2012-02-02 12:47:57
  • #3
Thanks for the response!

Unfortunately, the central ventilation system is too expensive for us. Our general contractor wants almost €9,000 for it. With the decentralized solution, we are at about one third of that. Additionally, we are worried about germs, loss of sound insulation, etc. There is also the space required in the utility room.

Our "planner" so far was "only" the very knowledgeable sales consultant. He expects that we will achieve KFW70 with this house, but also says that it has to be calculated by the structural engineer. I also consider that quite serious.
But: my fear is that the €5,000 solar system will be added after the contract is signed.

Maybe someone has enough experience to give hope for KFW70 based on my data?!
best regards Ben
 

Bauexperte

2012-02-02 13:26:17
  • #4
Hello Ben,

The fear of "germs" is artificially stoked to give insecure builders an argument to dispense with "supposedly" more expensive devices; usually a common tactic of poor salespeople.

The issue of sound is rather a problem with decentralized systems, which is also logical, because you have to accept outlets in your well-insulated exterior wall. Someone should really put an article on our website about this topic soon.

Finally a good example of serious sales advice; at least I hope so.

No one can say that reliably, if it were possible, €uro – whose area of expertise your question concerns – would have answered differently.

It depends on the location of the property, the components used in the house construction, the total heat demand of the new building and much more. I am currently also facing the problem of realizing a KfW 70 efficiency house in which a gas condensing boiler is to be used as the heat generator. At this point: Thanks €uro for your help

From experience with other building projects, I know that KfW 70 can be achieved almost everywhere – perhaps with one or two additional options (depending on the aforementioned circumstances) – where an air-to-water heat pump is used. Which brings me back to your opening sentence. If ventilation is planned anyway, you can generally use combination units if only one party is going to live in the new house; for rented portions each apartment should be supplied independently. These do not take up much more space in the utility room than a standard gas/condensing boiler with fittings, expansion vessel and storage tank; thereby you can also do without the – disliked by most HVAC planners – solar system.

If I understood your post correctly, this would mean for you: You give up the decentralized ventilation for about €3,000 and the gas/condensing boiler for about €3-4,000 depending on provider and size, and in return you receive a credit. The surcharge – then for the combination unit – should in my opinion be moderate and offers the great advantage that it contains an air-to-water heat pump as well as controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery, and you do not have to accept a loss of space in the utility room; you also save the often not insignificant costs of the gas connection.

This sentence actually worries me more. I was pleased at first about the salesperson you praised. But has he also fully informed you about the expected additional construction costs? If you have taken these costs into account in your financing plus costs for painting/flooring work and outdoor facilities as well as an amount "X" for extras, €5,000 should not really scare you.

Addition:

Poorly maintained air conditioning and ventilation systems pose an acute health risk. Delayed filter changes, dirty air ducts or germ-contaminated humidifiers promote the growth of dangerous pathogens that can cause life-threatening lung diseases in humans.

A common mistake is exchanging the filters of ventilation systems too late. If the drawn-in air passes through overloaded filters, the systems blow more pollutants into indoor spaces than they filter out. If bacterial and fungal colonies have already formed, the dangerous germs can spread throughout the entire building and settle, for example, in kitchens.

The fine fins of coolers and heaters in air conditioning systems and the many meters of ventilation ducts must also be regularly cleaned and inspected for dirt and moisture areas. This is often made more difficult by the absence of inspection openings, a case of classical planning error.

The most serious defects occur with humidifiers, because stagnant water between 25 and 45 degrees Celsius forms an ideal breeding ground for bacteria, especially the dangerous Legionella. In systems with humidifiers, therefore, continuous water replacement must be ensured.

The relevant VDI guideline 6022 on “Hygiene requirements for ventilation and air conditioning systems and devices” requires such systems to be regularly checked for contamination and moisture paths and, if necessary, cleaned by qualified specialists. In systems with humidifiers, this is required every two years, without humidifiers every three years.

Kind regards
 

Benjih

2012-02-02 14:24:07
  • #5


Hello Bauexperte,

no, within the framework of the incidental construction cost calculation, another 5T€ does not scare me. However, I do know how long I have to work for 5 T€ or how another 5 affects the financing. Reserve is available in the plot planning. However, I would like to push this through until the end in order to then carry out priority B projects. (Garden shed, fireplace, etc.)

I will talk to the seller again about the alternative gas & ventilation out air heat pump in...

Thanks! Ben
 

Shism

2012-02-02 14:33:23
  • #6
I'm just going to jump in here now

I am currently planning as well and am also considering whether KFW70 is feasible or what additional costs it would incur...

After reading a bit about the energy saving ordinance, I came across the following on Wikipedia:



Furthermore, Wikipedia states fP for a district heating network that draws its energy from CHP+biomass as 0.0!

Consequently, this results in a primary energy demand of 0!

Since I am also planning to use a controlled residential ventilation system with heat recovery, the transmission heat losses should also be very low...

That means it should basically be possible to build KFW70 or better without problems... without solar/heat pump etc... simply insulating the house according to the current state of the art...

Or am I overlooking something here? Does district heating really offer such a big advantage compared to heat pumps/gas/oil?
 

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