TraumhausAufRa
2023-05-08 19:48:44
- #1
Hello everyone,
I have been a silent reader of this forum for several years now, especially in the financing thread. Since my partner and I are now starting to plan our own apartment or house purchase in a somewhat more concrete way, I would like to start my own topic. What I want to say beforehand: we do not have a fixed plan yet and currently want to find out what would be possible under which conditions. So how can we prepare ourselves in the best possible way, what is realistic, and which dreams should we best say goodbye to now. Thanks already for constructive feedback!
General information about you:
Income and asset situation:
Expense situation:
Expenses already included in other items can of course be omitted. This list is not exhaustive and can be expanded or summarized as desired. Please note to indicate all costs monthly, even if they occur only annually!
Housing costs:
Mobility costs:
Insurance costs:
Living expenses:
Savings contributions:
Other expenses:
Total income and expenses:
General information about the property & financing:
Now we come to the actually exciting part. We are currently in the phase where we want to understand what is possible for us and when. Basically, we do not have the claim that our first property has to be our "forever" property. We can very well imagine starting now with an apartment with compromises, and possibly moving in 5-10 years into a house or apartment that meets significantly more or all of our wishes. Especially since we both regularly receive raises and surely one or the other job change will yet come, where we expect further salary jumps.
If we currently search for properties on Immoscout, etc., apartments we can imagine in the next few years, albeit with compromises (be it location, size, condition, etc.), cost around 400-500k. Apartments that we already like very much are around 600-700k, and if you really go into every last detail, we are more in the range of 900k-1.5 million.
Since we naturally want to stay realistic, we would preferably stay under 500k in 2-4 years, or up to 600k if it is really a great property. But with current 3-4% interest rates and the wish to keep the monthly payment under 2-2.5k, this becomes pretty challenging to almost impossible. Since, as said, it does not necessarily have to be the "forever" property, we do not have the strict goal to have the loan fully repaid by retirement (so a repayment rate of 1% would also be conceivable for us, whether the bank agrees is another matter). The wish to keep the monthly payment under 2-2.5k is primarily due to the desire for flexibility. So whether it is a job change with a few months’ pause in between, the possibility of self-employment, the possibility to reduce to less than 40 hours, enough money for private retirement provision, etc.
We know that we generally live very comfortably and appreciate that very much. Living somewhat more frugally would definitely be possible, but we do not want to restrict ourselves too much for a property. Especially vacation and spontaneous freedoms (eating out, sports/club, leisure, etc.) give us a lot of quality of life that we do not want to give up.
But now my actual questions are: which of the scenarios do you consider realistic? And how can we best prepare for this in the current situation? Currently, we save our equity mostly in ETFs and only partially in the checking account. Which is generally not recommended when the period in which the money will be needed could be so soon (when we can actually realize this project is still up in the air). But since the topic only recently became so concrete, the very concrete preparation also only starts now. Before that, it was more about general wealth accumulation, which we would also like to continue in ETFs alongside the property financing.
I have been a silent reader of this forum for several years now, especially in the financing thread. Since my partner and I are now starting to plan our own apartment or house purchase in a somewhat more concrete way, I would like to start my own topic. What I want to say beforehand: we do not have a fixed plan yet and currently want to find out what would be possible under which conditions. So how can we prepare ourselves in the best possible way, what is realistic, and which dreams should we best say goodbye to now. Thanks already for constructive feedback!
General information about you:
[*]How old are you? F 26, M 26, not married yet
[*]Are there children? No
[*]Are children planned? Currently not planned, but I would not completely rule out that I could change this in 5-10 years, definitely not before then
[*]What do you do for a living? Both in the software industry
[*]Are you employed, self-employed, retired, housewife, househusband, etc...? Both employed
[*]How many hours do you work? Both 40h
Income and asset situation:
[*]What income do you have (net)? F 3200, M 2900, additional annual bonuses F 3000-8000, M 3000-6000 (variable, the 3k each are fixed though)
[*]How much child benefit do you get? -
[*]Further transfer payments such as parental allowance, sick pay, etc...? -
[*]How much equity do you have? Currently 35k, expected 85k in 2-3 years; since the question will definitely come: no more equity is available yet, as we both have only been working for 3 and 1 year respectively, and not with such a high income from the start. Additionally, a student loan of 25k has already been paid off during this time.
[*]How much of the equity do you want to invest in the house project? At least the incidental purchase costs, so about 50k? (depends on the specific project)
Expense situation:
Expenses already included in other items can of course be omitted. This list is not exhaustive and can be expanded or summarized as desired. Please note to indicate all costs monthly, even if they occur only annually!
Housing costs:
[*]Current cold rent, 1400
[*]Current warm rent, 1800
[*]Electricity, 100
[*]Gas, included in additional costs
[*]Water, sewage, garbage fees, street cleaning, included in additional costs
[*]Telephone, internet, mobile, 60
[*]Total: 1960 -> round up to 2000
Mobility costs:
[*]Monthly ticket for bus and train (also for the kids!) 50
[*]Company car, 200 net deduction
[*]Electricity, 100
[*]Parking, 10
[*]Total: 360 -> round up to 400
Insurance costs:
[*]Private health insurance (also supplementary health insurance, daily sickness allowance, etc.) -
[*]Liability insurance (also pets), 5
[*]Capital or risk life insurance -
[*]Pension insurance (also Riester, Rürup, etc.), 300
[*]Disability insurance, 30
[*]Accident insurance -
[*]Household insurance -
[*]Legal protection insurance - 30
[*]Other insurance (such as travel insurance, funeral costs insurance) -
[*]Total: 365 -> round up to 400
Living expenses:
[*]Groceries - 500
[*]Restaurant costs - 100
[*]Care/drugstore - 30
[*]Pets (food, vet, medication, stable costs) -
[*]Medication - 20
[*]Clothing - 200
[*]Furniture / own purchases - 150
[*]Club fees/gym - 300
[*]Leisure - 100
[*]Total: 1400
Savings contributions:
[*]Vacation - 400
[*]House - 500, partly in ETFs, partly on checking account
[*]Retirement provision / wealth accumulation - 1000, in addition to the 300 above, currently completely in ETFs
[*]Total: 1900
Other expenses:
[*]Household account has been kept very detailed for 3 years, so all values come from it. For safety, everything is rounded somewhat.
[*]There is another apartment purchased for rental, but it completely pays for itself and will continue to be used for wealth building.
Total income and expenses:
[*]Total income, 6100 + bonuses (converted to monthly 500-1150, but intended as a buffer)
[*]Total expenses, 4200
[*]Balance, 1900 (all savings contributions)
[*]Of which total cold rent and dispensable savings (e.g., savings rate for the house), 3300 new balance including cold rent
General information about the property & financing:
Now we come to the actually exciting part. We are currently in the phase where we want to understand what is possible for us and when. Basically, we do not have the claim that our first property has to be our "forever" property. We can very well imagine starting now with an apartment with compromises, and possibly moving in 5-10 years into a house or apartment that meets significantly more or all of our wishes. Especially since we both regularly receive raises and surely one or the other job change will yet come, where we expect further salary jumps.
If we currently search for properties on Immoscout, etc., apartments we can imagine in the next few years, albeit with compromises (be it location, size, condition, etc.), cost around 400-500k. Apartments that we already like very much are around 600-700k, and if you really go into every last detail, we are more in the range of 900k-1.5 million.
Since we naturally want to stay realistic, we would preferably stay under 500k in 2-4 years, or up to 600k if it is really a great property. But with current 3-4% interest rates and the wish to keep the monthly payment under 2-2.5k, this becomes pretty challenging to almost impossible. Since, as said, it does not necessarily have to be the "forever" property, we do not have the strict goal to have the loan fully repaid by retirement (so a repayment rate of 1% would also be conceivable for us, whether the bank agrees is another matter). The wish to keep the monthly payment under 2-2.5k is primarily due to the desire for flexibility. So whether it is a job change with a few months’ pause in between, the possibility of self-employment, the possibility to reduce to less than 40 hours, enough money for private retirement provision, etc.
We know that we generally live very comfortably and appreciate that very much. Living somewhat more frugally would definitely be possible, but we do not want to restrict ourselves too much for a property. Especially vacation and spontaneous freedoms (eating out, sports/club, leisure, etc.) give us a lot of quality of life that we do not want to give up.
But now my actual questions are: which of the scenarios do you consider realistic? And how can we best prepare for this in the current situation? Currently, we save our equity mostly in ETFs and only partially in the checking account. Which is generally not recommended when the period in which the money will be needed could be so soon (when we can actually realize this project is still up in the air). But since the topic only recently became so concrete, the very concrete preparation also only starts now. Before that, it was more about general wealth accumulation, which we would also like to continue in ETFs alongside the property financing.