Questions about burglary security

Hello everyone,

I asked our builder what it would cost to install appropriate burglary protection for the windows on the ground floor.

I was then given the following options and prices (a total of 10 windows of different sizes):

1. VSG glazing on the ground floor on all windows and patio doors: € 3,649.24

2. P4A (anti-burglary) glazing on the ground floor on all windows and patio doors € 2,154.22

3. WK2 fittings on 6 window sashes on the ground floor € 429.65 (without fixed glazing, technically not possible without lift/slide door)

Now I have a few questions:

1. What exactly is the difference between VSG glazing and P4A glazing? Do I understand correctly that VSG glazing is also directly anti-burglary?

2. What would you recommend in terms of price/performance? Of course, I generally would not want to save on security.

3. We can also add lockable windows for €139 per window. Are lockable windows worthwhile? That would be 10 more windows.

Thanks in advance for your help, Christian

We can also add lockable windows for €139 per window. Are lockable windows worth it? That would be another 10 windows.

You can also get them much cheaper if you buy the handles yourself and remove and screw in the two screws yourself. That puts you at €139 for all 10 windows.

Hello Christian,

1. What exactly is the difference between laminated safety glass (VSG) and P4A glazing? Do I understand correctly that laminated safety glass is also impact-resistant?

A glazing is "impact-resistant" if it prevents thrown or hurled objects from damaging the glass. There are different PA classes at different prices for this.

"VSG" stands for VerbundSicherheitsverGlasung - two glass panes are bonded with a PVB film (plastic foil) and, naturally, the thicker the bonded foil is designed, the more "impact-resistant" it is.

2. What would you recommend in terms of price/performance? Generally, of course, I would not want to save on safety.

Item 1 on your list should be certified?

3. WK2 fittings for 6 window sashes on the ground floor €429.65 (without fixed glazing, technically not possible without lift/slide door)

So you have chosen an older generation as a construction partner; WK2 no longer exists - it is now called RC2.

What you described under 3 is not a _genuine_ RC2 glazing (formerly WK2 and also certified), but the RCN2 variant. We have this, btw, installed as standard on the ground floors of our single-family houses. Since a burglar wants to get into the house quickly, it is a proven and - from my subjective point of view - sufficient means of securing the windows. Of course, more is always possible.

We can also add lockable windows for €139 per window. Are lockable windows worthwhile? That would then be another 10 windows.

This is usually included in item 3. RCN2.

Rhenish regards

Hello everyone,

Thanks already for the answers, which I would like to respond to now.

You can also get them much cheaper if you buy the handles yourself and screw the two screws out and in yourself. Then you’re at €139 for all 10 windows

I have read up on this again and the price was actually only for the lift-and-slide door. I think it’s a bit more complicated here. Lockable windows have, probably for the reasons you mentioned, not been offered for now.

Hello Christian,

A glazing is "impact-resistant" if it prevents thrown or hurled objects from damaging the glass. There are different PA classes at various prices.

"VSG" stands for Laminated Safety Glass – two panes of glass are glued together with a PVB film (plastic film) and, depending on the thickness of the bonded film, are of course also "impact-resistant."

Position 1 of your list should be certified?

You have chosen an older generation as a building partner; WK2 no longer exists – today it is called RC2.

What you described under point 3 is not a _real_ RC2 glazing (formerly WK2 and likewise certified), but the variant RCN2. By the way, we have installed these as standard on the ground floors of our single-family houses. Since a burglar wants to get into the house quickly, it is a practical and – from my subjective view – sufficient measure to secure the windows. Of course, more is always possible.

That is usually included in position 3: RCN2.

Best regards from the Rhineland

Thanks for your explanations. I have now also read up on it further and am still trying to clarify the difference or the connection between point 1 and point 2.

I am trying to explain it to myself this way: If I take the VSG, then I have corresponding windows with the properties for this type of glazing with the appropriate class for attack-resistant glazing, but under P4A (a class between P1A – P3A). For that, I would now have to pay €3,649.24. But if I want to improve the protection again, I can go to the better class P4A for €2,154.22. So the prices would be additive.

Without asking the builder again, this would be the explanation for these points. If yes, is the additional cost for class P4A worth it? It seems to me that the lower classes would already provide good protection.

Regarding the fittings, I am actually assuming correct certification, but will of course inquire again. I would then like to commission them accordingly. I also think, as you say, that this is a minimum requirement for the windows. Would it also make sense to inquire about a higher resistance class here? You said this class is actually sufficient; according to Wikipedia, this class is also recommended by the police.

Thanks already for further answers.

Best regards, Christian

You can also get them much cheaper if you buy the handles yourself and unscrew and screw in the two screws yourself. Then you're at €139 for all 10 windows

With what breakaway torque? If you would now also link to a specific offer that proves the stated price ...

What would you recommend in terms of price/performance?

"Fittings according to WK2" or RC2N. If performance is prioritized, then RC2.

Hello Christian,

I am just trying to explain it to myself. If I take the laminated safety glass (VSG), then I have the corresponding windows with the properties for this type of glazing with a corresponding class for attack-resistant glazing, but under P4A (a class between P1A - P3A). For this, I would now have to pay € 3,649.24. However, if I want to improve the protection again, I can go to the better class P4A for € 2,154.22. So the prices would be additive.

I do not understand this as an additive overall solution, but rather as either/or. In my opinion, this also explains the price difference between position 1 + 2; in the latter, the laminated safety glass is simply missing.

Regarding the fittings, I actually assume a correct certification,

If you meant me or my answer: I did not doubt the certification as such, rather I wondered that position 3 is not included in position 1 (RC2 certified).

You said that this class is actually sufficient; according to Wikipedia, this class is also recommended by the police.

I would not necessarily trust Wiki now, even though the control of the posted contributions has improved.

I travel a lot to fairs, again next Sunday. At these exhibitions, I always go to the police booth—if they are exhibitors—and maintain my contacts. Now in my area, there are two booth occupancies, which I encounter alternately. One swears exclusively by genuine RC 2, i.e. certified windows; the other prioritizes RC 2N as sufficient protection. So it is, as always in life: ask 2 experts and you get 3 opinions

I see RC 2N as completely sufficient, because burglars want to get into the house quickly; they do not want to work on the triple glazing. It already takes some effort to cut through the 3 glass panes; so they try it via the frame. If access is made difficult here, according to RC 2N, they usually lose the desire to invest valuable time; detection is not what makes their job "comfortable."

In my opinion, it is primarily a very personal decision—if the homeowners feel safer/more comfortable with certified windows, they choose RC 2 or higher, depending on valuables in the single-family house. If the value is to be considered "normal" according to the household insurance, most homeowners choose the simpler variant RC 2N, consisting of several mushroom head locks with strike plates with security elements, drill protection, and handle operation (the number of mushroom heads varies with the window size). In both variants, I always recommend not to limit oneself exclusively to the ground floor but to additionally secure the windows of the upper floor or attic, which can be quickly "climbed" over a garage or balcony.

HTH

Rhenish regards