Local water supplier cannot find water shut-off valve

Hello everyone,

while searching for some helpful tips for my current problem case, I came across this forum and hope to find someone who can give me some good advice/hint.

Here is the background:

A few months ago, I bought a multi-family house. In the basement of the house, the following two jobs need to be carried out in the next days/weeks:

1. Replacement of the 1st water shut-off valve, as it is continuously dripping
2. Replacement/renewal of the water pipes, as it was recently discovered that there is a piece of lead pipe (and possibly underground outside the building) in front of the water meter.

My plan was initially to have the dripping water shut-off valve repaired, to avoid the basement eventually flooding (in case the valve gives way). Afterwards, I would then immediately proceed with the replacement of the lead pipes.

Now to the problem:

After approximately two weeks and several on-site appointments with my plumber and the local water supplier (they came 3 times), it turns out that nobody knows where the water can be shut off - outside or in a basement of the surrounding buildings. And without shutting off the water, the repair work cannot be carried out.

The ca. 100-year-old building is located in a backyard on private property and the water pipes seem to have been privately installed decades ago. Further details about how and where the water pipes run underground apparently nobody has – not even the previous owner. They are also not marked in the local network plans, as they were privately installed at some point.

By now, I really don’t know how to proceed and am actually considering a) starting to have everything dug out from the building to trace the course of the water pipes or b) having a completely new, official connection (at my own expense) installed by the local water supplier and having the old still active pipe – if somehow possible – decommissioned.

Does anyone perhaps have any advice or had a similar case in the past and can tell me how I should best proceed?

I would like to thank everyone in advance who takes the time to read this long text. Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Anton

But the connection at the street must be known, right? If necessary, the water must just be shut off there? What is in front of the backyard as seen from the street? Possibly a building? Then the rear building was surely accessed through it?

Hi, I didn't expect a reply so quickly

Together with the local water supplier, we tried the three most obvious shut-offs on the street and unfortunately nothing worked.

There are actually two buildings in front of the backyard. In one of these buildings we even found a similar piece of lead pipe of the same thickness as in my house and were almost sure it was the pipe connected to my house (or privately installed back then). We shut it off there, but unfortunately without success.

My impression of the colleagues from the local water supplier as well as the plumbers was generally that everyone was really at a loss, since almost everything had been tried.

Best regards

Sounds familiar to me. Luckily, a few old gentlemen stopped by here – on their way to the doctor, to the baker – who had built the street back in the 50s. With their memories, my mother, and the plans from the municipality, we made the connection.

It’s difficult to find someone who might have buried something there. Especially since they worked very creatively back then to connect the old (1929) with the new (50s). It’s quite possible that over the 100 years a creative and at the time perhaps even logical solution was found. If you dig up, I would definitely have new lines laid.

By now, I really don't know what to do anymore and am actually considering a) starting to have everything excavated from the building to be able to trace the course of the water pipes or b) having a completely new, official connection (at my own expense) installed by the local water supplier and having the old still active pipe - if at all possible - decommissioned.

My impression of the colleagues from the local water supplier as well as the installers was generally that everyone was really at a loss since almost everything had been tried.

Well, I don't really share that impression. Off the top of my head, I can think of two methods to locate the water pipe in operation, namely by sending signals through the pipe or by acoustic pipe location. This shouldn't be new to either the water supplier or the installer.

If the pipe is found and locally exposed like this, and the guys then wonder how to shut it off without a gate valve, ball valve, or valve, just throw "freezing" into the mix.

and now just imagine, there is a pipe burst...