HPS system - picea as a source of electricity and heat?

It's a pity that apparently no one has had any experience yet.

Hi,

the HPS Picea immediately caught my eye when I was looking for 100% ecological power generation - one that also bridges the winter.

I am currently still looking for information on whether the HPS Picea is "standalone" capable. That means someone does not need any additional ventilation or heating system.

Because if a heating system is also needed, then the costs get quite tight. The advantage would be that no heating system and no ventilation system would have to be purchased.

And I think the statements that talk down the efficiency are nonsense.

1. I still have photovoltaics that also (yes, that works very well) supply electricity in winter and feed it into the battery. In winter at about 10% of the performance - even on the worst day, 3-9 kW would still come down (my house roof is designed for 30 kW photovoltaics) which is then used in the house (with smaller systems accordingly less but still certainly about 1 kW in most cases)

2. In addition, the system produces electricity in winter as well - since it only has a 1.5 kW fuel cell, it will fill the storage and the house for large parts of the day, at night it is usually quiet so that the short-term storage should always have enough power.

3. In this process (power storage and generation), heat is also produced (battery, electrolyzer, fuel cells, inverter). This "waste heat" does not dissipate - unlike 99% of other systems, but is used to heat the ventilation system and the 300L water tank.
As a result, little to no additional electricity is needed for heating (according to the datasheet, it also has a 4.5 kW heating element installed if I read it correctly).

4. The ventilation system also recovers waste heat from the exhaust air, if you now create a smart home and place some electrical devices in one room (house technology for smart home, network, a small PC, etc.) then that should also contribute to the waste heat so that in the end possibly no additional energy needs to be supplied?

5. If you take a passive house or a KFW40plus house - the Picea alone should be enough, right? In a passive house, the house is also planned with a south orientation so that the sun heats the room through the windows in winter?
For passive houses, heating power of >15 kW per sqm is often spoken of. With the available waste heat of 3500 kW (according to the datasheet depending on the area of application 2000-5000 kW), that alone would be enough for a 233 sqm house as a heat source? And many passive houses are satisfied with considerably less and can also manage with 11 kW or less heating energy. So it doesn't need much more heating power, theoretically it should be able to do it alone...
Therefore, I cannot really agree with the statement of the thread creator installation company.

But so far I have not come across information that specifically looks at the "standalone" scenario. Because that would make the system pay off much sooner.
Oh yes, you still feed in with solar - Picea only has a 2.5 kW electrolyzer installed - so most of the power surplus still goes into the grid.
Of course, the cost amount is not insignificant at 100K ... but everyone knows every power/heat comes 100% from the roof at all times and not externally supplied.

So in winter you don't burden the grid either but give off power at most if there are surpluses - but you are not dependent on the somewhat dirty power (solar is missing at night and is only partly available during the day - so unfortunately there is more fossil fuel in the mix then).

In itself a fine thing such a hydrogen storage - oh yes, you could still reclaim 19% VAT (which also makes the system cheaper) so you can also deduct all the pipes and underfloor heating if they are directly connected to the Picea. Since this is a power-producing system with solar coupling (inverters are installed), the tax can be fully reclaimed as well.
So it’s not so expensive anymore, 100k - 19 (VAT) - 12.5 (subsidy) - 25 (heating and ventilation system), then we're already at 43k left in costs that remain? And since you don't have to buy additional power - additionally feed some in - no additional energy carrier for heating - you pay off the remaining 43 over the years of use through the saved electricity and heating energy purchase...
Would be electricity and heating costs of about €2150 per year (calculated over 20 years)... ok, if you add for example €500 maintenance per year, that's €2650... €220 heat and electricity per month. If you also have an electric car, the power from the system/sun is also used... with a 233 sqm house and high consumption, it pays off even more... sure, having 100k at the beginning is not easy ... and for 24k you could get gas - electricity not included...
In a few years the whole thing will be cheaper anyway because made in series (which all gas and other heating systems are already becoming - it won't get cheaper there anymore).
So for me I will continue to look for ways to call a Picea my own and run it in standalone operation.

Hello,

we had most of your thoughts as well. I can well imagine standalone only in terms of heating the rooms, since the passive house builders we talked to have already advised us against a decorative stove and were concerned whether all the warm air from the Picea can even be absorbed.

According to the Picea distributor, it seems to be "only" problematic with warm water. He said that an additional solution is still needed for this. However, hot water is really important to me, so the system is currently out for us.. but we also hope that in 20 years everything will be standard and there will be more experience, and we can possibly retrofit then.

PS: Unfortunately, we can’t get 30 kWp on the roof.

With all the love for the environment, 100K for a zero series with an uncertain future and still necessary hot water preparation. Where are the advantages supposed to be?

This approach is neither economical nor ecological.

These systems only pay off when connected. The individual system, which already has the H2 storage full by mid-July and can no longer consume the electricity from photovoltaics, will remain inefficient. In a network of 100 or more single-family houses, a high degree of self-sufficiency can be achieved. Then H2 should only be produced, consumed, and stored in one place, because if everyone has H2 compressed gas cylinders in the garden, that is no longer fun. No more smoking.

Is the heating element with 4.5kW (3-stage adjustable up to 4.5kW) not sufficient? To reach the last few degrees ... I don't know much about it but why do you need water that is 55°C and warmer? Underfloor heating runs at lower temperatures and at 55°C in the shower I would burn myself completely?