Architect fees and additional costs

Hello,

I am looking for information regarding the composition of the architect's fee we have to pay.

We pay our architect according to the valid HOAI 2009 and went through the billable costs with him over the weekend. During this, we noticed some things that we did not know before or that we would like to research.

- Our architect told us that self-performed work in drywall construction is fully credited to the billable costs of his fee. The working hours would be priced (wage per hour) as if a company had done the work. Is this correct?

- A reviewing structural engineer would cost about €5,000 for an average single-family house in Hesse. However, since our architect has obtained the necessary authorizations to take over the tasks of the reviewing structural engineer himself, he would only invoice us €1,700 (net) for this service. The costs are meant to cover his expenses to renew the authorizations from time to time and his effort. The costs of the reviewing structural engineer seem quite high to us, so we are unsure whether the amount payable to the architect, since he did it himself, is also set too high?

- The billable costs for his fee invoice are based on the originally offered net price of the companies for all trades. Any possible discounts on the invoices (cash discount, negotiations...) would not affect the billable costs.

- The net costs are included 100% in the billable costs for each trade. I heard that there are (probably technical?) trades where these cannot be credited 100%. That means that different trades would be calculated differently in the fee statement?

- The thermal insulation certificate for our house was created by his structural engineer without prior consultation. He charges €2,000 for this service. However, friends of ours only paid between €400-600 for this service. Inquiries with other companies also resulted in an amount of approximately €500-600... What amount should we actually pay?

It would be great if I could get some comments on my questions. Unfortunately, I was not able to complete my further research on the internet 100%.

Thank you!!

...
- The thermal protection certificate for our house was created by his structural engineer without consultation. He demands €2,000 for providing his service.

That is harsh. However, it is difficult to judge in general from a distance. It may be that the building is geometrically so complicated that such prices are being called for. The MEP planning of the most essential and critical points does not cost that much for a "normal" building. Who carried it out in the present case?

Best regards

Hello,

- Our architect told us that self-performed work in drywall construction is fully credited towards the billable costs of his fee. The working hours would be priced (wage per hour) as if a company had done the work. Is this correct?

Yes.

- A checking structural engineer would cost around €5,000 for an average single-family house in Hesse.

Average means: 130 sqm living space? Then I consider this statement more than a rumor.

However, since our architect has obtained the necessary permissions to take over the tasks of the checking structural engineer himself, he would only charge us €1,700 (net) for this service...

I pay €2,300 net for structural engineering for a 130 sqm house, and €1,800 net for the thermal insulation certificate – both with a "real" structural engineer.

- The billable costs for his fee invoice refer to the originally offered net price of the companies for all trades. Possible discounts on the invoices (cash discount, negotiations...) would not affect the billable costs.

Correct.

- The net costs for each trade are fully included 100% in the billable costs. I had heard that there are (probably technical?) trades where these cannot be credited 100%. Does this mean that different trades would be calculated differently in the fee accounting?

No.

- The thermal insulation certificate for our house was created without consultation by his structural engineer. He demands €2,000 for providing this service. Friends of ours, however, only paid between €400-600 for this service. Inquiries with other companies also resulted in an approximate sum of €500-600... What amount should we actually pay?

As I wrote above, the thermal insulation certificate costs me €1,800.

Kind regards

Hello €uro,

That's intense

No, just a little overpriced. A "one-man operation" can certainly do it a bit cheaper; where there are several "mouths" to feed, the math doesn't add up.

Kind regards

Again thermal insulation, I think I have now found out where the large price differences lie. Could it be that my known builders only had the proof of thermal insulation, i.e. the energy certificate, created, which is sufficient for the building application, and our architect charges us for the service of the complete thermal insulation? According to HOAI, this consists of

1. Developing the planning concept for thermal insulation (20%)
2. Developing the design including the rough dimensioning for thermal insulation and working through constructive details of the thermal insulation measures (40%)
3. Proof of thermal insulation (25%)
4. Coordinating the planned thermal insulation with the execution planning and awarding (15).

If the complete thermal insulation does not have to be done in this way and one only calculates the thermal insulation and issues the energy certificate, the costs would add up. 25% of the estimated €2,000 would be costs of about €600 gross...

Hello,

.... As far as I know, the costs of the structural engineer are specified by the state.

The fees for structural engineers are set out in the HOAI.

Kind regards