Annihilation of existence

Hello,

first of all, my condolences for your bad luck.
Now to your questions: I am not an expert, but intuitively I would say that if there is no longer a plan available, unfortunately it has to be applied for again. The application takes its time, but here you could try to speed it up a bit with kindness.
There is basically [Bestandsschutz], but on what in your case? There is nothing left! You cannot restore the electrical system to the standard of 1930, the same probably applies to fire protection measures. Whether the staircase belongs to it, I also find strange.
However, your architect should actually know all this.

Good luck with your project!

The time expenditure would even be bearable. The real problem would be the high fire protection requirements.

By [Bestandschutz] I naturally mean the intact staircase. Everything else like electrical installation, insulation, etc. will be restored according to current regulations. Eventually >(

My architect was and is of the opinion that since this is a 1:1 restoration, this whole procedure is therefore not necessary.

Let's wait and see...

Hello,

We have hired an architect to plan and supervise the "reconstruction". According to the initial, prevailing opinion, this project only needed to be reported. I hope that is expressed correctly. So no long approval process, etc.

This stands and falls – as you experienced firsthand – with the person at the building authority assigned to assist you. Blanket statements like those of your architect meet reality at this point.

So the architect reported this to the city. Now the person from the city shows up. According to him, the planning documents of the house were burned in the war. It is therefore at his discretion to decide whether he now demands the full program to bring his documents up to date. Duration of the procedure up to 3 months. Exact quote from the city.

I consider that "bluffing"; if the external conditions do not change, his approval obligation should be limited – as long as the latest state of technology is maintained. For the latter, all craftsmen involved in the construction and, last but not least, your architect are responsible.

Now an additional 3 months waiting time is supposed to be added just so he gets his way? Can’t one also argue that the welfare of the people here takes priority? Discretion works both ways, right?

You have only one chance: treat him the way you want to be treated. If he insists on it, it could take even longer...

The next problem is that years ago my grandfather converted the roof structure. Of course without permission. Now the city official also suggested that if this is converted again, it would have to be approved first. In this case, the house would be classified in a different "type class" ?! That means, fire-reinforced ceilings. And the kicker, the staircase connecting all floors must not be made of wood. But it has been, since 1933.

How many floors are you talking about?

Is there no protection of existing rights? The big crux of the matter is that we are still paying off the renovation after taking over the house. We have no reserves or means to finance these requirements with another loan.

Where would the “protection of existing rights” for the house be justified if only rubble and ashes remain? As you describe it, the staircase could not have survived the fire unharmed. It sounds more like demolition and subsequent new construction would be the most reasonable option.

That would mean we would have to sell the house and the land and pay off the bank. Would we then receive the money that the insurance should have paid for the renovation? That would make sense to me. But that doesn’t mean anything :D

Even if you sold the property including the ruin, that doesn't change anything about the existing insurance claim; of course, the insurance must pay.

You further write that you are having trouble with the insurance – unfortunately nothing unusual; when it comes to paying out, insurance companies often become difficult. Is the damage even covered by the household fire insurance? And if yes, have you considered consulting a lawyer; often the only means.

I hope someone can give me tips on how to possibly argue. The city’s decision is still pending and should be made this week.

Your architect should know this or be able to handle it through his contacts in the authority. As stupid as it may sound, you only have one chance, which is to get on “good terms” with the caseworker. Many of them are quite insignificant in real life, and having a little “power” is therefore a welcome compensation. Nevertheless, you should never voice these thoughts out loud...

Try searching Google for court decisions related to fires + reconstruction + building authority; maybe you’ll find something that can help your architect with the argumentation.

Best regards

I have not yet given up hope that at least something in this matter will go our way :rolleyes:

The house has not completely burned down. Even the roof tiles are still on. The entire roof framework was so badly burnt that the roof will be completely replaced. The fire brigade, of course, used a lot of water. So the house was damaged more by the firefighting water than by the fire. The "shell" (except for a few square meters of tile surface) is intact. Only the interior was completely removed. Walls bare, clay ceilings were soaked and removed, all floor coverings thrown away, etc.

It is a ground floor + first floor and the formerly finished attic, the second floor if you will. From the ground floor, the wooden stairs lead up to the roof. They are now dry again and otherwise undamaged.

The insurance is fully liable to pay. That is certain. However, opinions differ about the amount of payment. The insurance naturally wants to pay as little as possible. But I do not :o I have already preliminarily engaged a lawyer specializing in insurance law. Before I make things even worse with them, I will first wait for their response and only then, if necessary, proceed with the lawyer.

Just an example of customer-friendly insurance companies:

The household contents on the first floor and attic were destroyed by the firefighting water, fire, and soot. The ground floor only needs to be cleaned. The insurance offered us 20,000 euros for the household contents even though they knew that the remediation costs would be deducted from that and amount to 15,000 euros. Great. For 5,000 euros, I can get a decent kitchen, but not a complete apartment furnishing. Well, that is another matter.

Thank you very much in advance for your assessments.

Hello,

It concerns the ground floor + 1st floor and the formerly converted attic, 2nd floor if you will. From the ground floor, the wooden staircase leads up to the roof. It is now dry again and otherwise intact.

So a two-story building with a converted attic? Not uncommon for this period; also that the attic was later converted "invisibly" :D

In my area, I have not yet experienced a private household being required to install a concrete staircase; on the other hand, that you have to get the attic conversion approved is common practice. Ask the caseworker what he thinks if you prove the stability of the staircase through an expert.

Means ceilings reinforced against fire.

There can hardly be any other measures required than those usual in new construction; i.e., for example, timber-framed roof truss with impregnated wood, insulation with mineral wool, vapor barrier, and then 12.5 mm gypsum plasterboard. It's not that elaborate. Somehow I still lack some understanding here; what exactly did the caseworker say? What does the other "type class" mean? Or is rental involved here?

Kind regards

Yesterday there was a notification from the city.

Wording:
A reconstruction according to §55 HBO is not possible; a procedure according to §57 Annex 1 and 2 is "ordered".
Due to the possible habitation space in the attic, a fire protection officer must also be commissioned to check which additional measures (escape routes, etc.) must be carried out. So it no longer matters whether we actually convert it. As long as the possibility of staying up there exists, this crap must be done.

So the bad news. My only straw I’m clinging to right now is the statement from my architect. He says that since the attic was converted before the fire, the insurance should also pay for all measures to restore this condition.
Claiming that there was no permit for the conversion will probably be difficult, as, as mentioned, no documents for the house exist. (burned in WW2)

So one could also argue that the permit burned down.

My architect hopefully clarifies this quickly with the responsible building expert.

Until then, anxiously waiting and hoping.