rakäthe
2017-11-19 20:13:24
- #1
Hello everyone,
I wanted to introduce you to our terrace project from 2016/17 and at the very end give a conclusion about the different building materials and the manufacturers’ behavior regarding justified complaints.
In summer 2016, we moved into our used house.
The outdoor area was in very bad condition.
So we didn’t hesitate long and after a few drafts it was decided that a completely new natural stone terrace with a roof would be built and the entire green area fenced in for a robotic mower.
Our local building materials dealer mostly advised us well regarding the choice of materials:
Subsoil: 25cm of 0-32 gravel (we used about 30 tons)
On top, a 12m2 area made of BiWood BPC full decking boards (on about 100 concrete slabs).
Around it, 35mm thick Nandi polygonal slabs, freshly laid on a 60mm thick layer of trass-drain mortar.
For joint mortar, we were recommended WeberMix 682. More on this at the end.
Since neither a splash guard was installed at the house nor the foundation slab insulated, we took care of this in the construction area right away.
Around it, we dry-built a natural stone wall resting on a 40cm deep gravel foundation.
Half of the whole thing is roofed by a terrace roofing system from a local specialist company.
Now we enjoy a 40m2 large, partially roofed terrace. Next, we want to protect the exposed weather sides with zip roller blinds and build an outdoor chimney stove... but first, after 1.5 years, a new eat-in kitchen with panoramic fireplace is coming.
The demolition work of the old terrace including excavation for the gravel and natural stone wall took about two weeks until everything that had to go was gone.
After about 10 tons of quartzite rubble lay in our driveway, the Tetris game began. Dry stone wall building is a great test of patience. At the same time, the substructure was built up layer by layer. Two large block steps made of the same natural stone as the polygonal slabs complete the look. After one month, the new base was ready.
Around it, we installed a ring of LED ground spotlights and pulled a buried cable into the base for them. The ground spotlights are also embedded at 1.5m intervals in the new splash guard.
We also buried the underground cable down to the garden shed and fenced in this property boundary. I completely wired the shed over a weekend; sockets, lights, decorations, outdoor lighting, and for the robotic mower.
Back to the terrace: It was time to determine the area for the BPC. For this, we laid a ring of the polygonal slabs around a base area to determine the ideal position.
Then about 100 concrete slabs had to be leveled and the substructure fixed.
Then “quickly” two foundations for the roof had to be dug in (50mm KG pipe, 80cm deep with 4x 2m reinforcement bars, then concreted).
Then the terrace roof builders came and assembled the roof in 3 days. Unfortunately, there were several complaints. But now everything is fine.
After that, we laid the BPC from BiWood, which was very comfortable. Unfortunately, 5 boards were delivered with defects. This was complained about and we received a goodwill credit.
Next, we spent about 2 days sorting and laying out all the polygonal slabs. This is absolutely necessary with the size of the slabs (about 60cm) because otherwise the result is not satisfactory.
When all slabs were in place, several corners had to be marked and photographed.
Then, row by row (starting around the BPC), we laid about 100 sacks of trass-drain mortar and 2 sacks of WeberXerm 854 flexible natural stone adhesive, fresh in fresh. From that point on, the result looked overwhelmingly good.
Then it was time to grout. The finish, one might think. The cherry on the cake, as they say.
For this, we followed the suggestion of our building materials dealer and processed 10 buckets of WeberMix 682. One bucket costs about €67, by the way.
The mortar is not mortar in the conventional sense. It is quartz sand which, by means of a supplied resin can, forms a firm joint. The processing is very simple: You pour everything into a bucket and stir for at least 5 minutes until lump-free. Then just pour the bucket onto the surface and spread it with a scraper. The result looked very good and after about 2-4 hours, the material was already starting to harden.
For us, visually a total success. Then we dug out the flower beds properly, concreted the edge stones, laid weed fabric, spread 6m³ of bark mulch and voilà …:
After terrace and garden were finished and both were eagerly used by us this summer, we noticed we kept bringing sand into the house. At first, we didn’t think much of it and just pressure-washed and swept the terrace once …
But it did not get better. We started paying attention to the sand formation and swept everything together once. We filled a full shovel!
Worried now, we did abrasion tests at different spots. And lo and behold — the material rubs off with the sole of the shoe. We then contacted the building materials dealer and lodged a complaint. After much going back and forth about appointments (some people still haven’t realized that you sometimes have to do the work yourself, outrageously), a field service employee from Weber showed up:
He listened to everything first and rubbed the mortar. Then he started finding “hollow spots” and said that water was standing under the hollows and that’s why it hadn’t hardened... what utter nonsense...
I politely but firmly made clear to him that
the abrasion appears on the surface
there is a 60mm thick layer of drainage mortar under the slabs and therefore no water can accumulate under the mortar
abrasion occurs also at “non-hollow” spots just as at the supposedly identified hollow spots. My question how a sand-resin lump could hollow out underneath when being spread with a scraper was not answered by the gentleman.
Besides that, the man had neither a solution approach nor plausible explanations. I offered him to take a sample. At one of the roofing posts, the roofer had to rework afterwards, so the joint was damaged there anyway.
The Weber man chiselled out to the drainage mortar (i.e. the full depth of the joint) and took several pieces. Then he left saying he would get back to us... and Weber did get back to us. Check out the last photo.
I received an email from the building materials dealer with Weber’s response. At this moment I almost lost it.
“At the visual inspection, it was confirmed that the joint material can be rubbed off with a finger. A less firm surface can thus be confirmed.” So far, so good...
“The result of the lab test showed no deviation from the usual quality.”
Excuse me? That means the sample corresponded to the expected state? That would mean the less firm surface (see above) is normal...
“Sand washout of the joint can have the following reasons:
- After processing, it rained on the surface within the first 8-10 hours, causing the binder to be partially washed out superficially.”
WTF? Rain under a 20m2 roof?? In a week without rain?? Not to mention that the “binder is NOT only partially washed out superficially” but crumbly down to the drainage mortar.
...The best is saved for last…
“- Water was added to the joint mortar during the mixing process.”
Sure — I, Kloppi, ruin the fine finish of my terrace because I am too stupid to understand an instruction for exactly two (two!) components and just pour a bucket of water in for safety.
Makes total sense — that’s why the rest of the terrace is also totally botched, because of two left hands.
One more they have:
“- The filler was not sufficiently mixed with the binder.”
Logical… bucket in, can on top, 2x stirring is enough, then thick lumps on the €25,000 terrace... you don’t see that later…
I’m getting annoyed again...
“For the above reasons, we cannot accept this complaint.”
Ridiculous.
The best is their recommendation on departure:
“A subsequent consolidation of the joint area is not purposeful... the paving joint mortar should be completely removed and the terrace surface re-grouted…”
Dear heads of technical consultation North and Central, I couldn’t have put it better myself. You should scrape your junk out of my terrace and lay a competitor’s product. I’m always available for appointment arrangements.
So dear ones. At this point, I urgently want to advise you: Forget the great Weber joint mortar 682. Looks great to process, but is the worst garbage. If you don’t want to live on a sandbank and your terrace project matters to you even half as much as it does to us, then either go to the competition or use classic joint mortar.
In case of complaints, the company is not too proud to pull the dumbest and most far-fetched arguments out of the lowest drawer… but with us, they’ve come to the wrong place. After repeatedly jumping on the gentleman following the letter over the phone, the competent man will come again “as a gesture of goodwill” for a second sample soon. Ultimately, we won’t watch this any longer — either they send someone who does the job properly or we drag the company to court with an external expert report.
And of course, we will gladly pour you a full cup of honesty about their competence and methods for free…
We will keep you updated.