Use Riester pension for financing?

However, I disagree, at least when it comes to fund savings plans. My contract currently has >30k with just under 20k contributions, and the tax refunds are not even included yet.

Well, you may disagree. You are still wrong. I also have a fund product and yes, the return is okay. But if I were to invest myself, the return would be better (ETF instead of expensive actively managed funds and no additional costs, plus the unpleasant reallocations). However, the main problem is not even the lower return due to high costs and poor reallocations - the main problem is the poor annuitization. You can have it calculated for yourself with what factor the money saved up by retirement is annuitized. That makes the whole thing almost a catastrophe. Real estate investment is a way to avoid this poor annuitization.

That may feel that way, but I would like to see the calculation. Just from the premiums and tax refund, there is a return that is unimaginable on the capital market. And that with capital guarantee. I only pay a marginal account management fee and a small portion of indirect fund fees. There are no surcharges.

The annuitization as a ratio to the capital is meager, yes. But that is not because of Riester, rather due to the retirement formula and applies to all pension insurances, statutory as well as private. I compared this once and there were hardly any differences in calculating the pension amount per 10k€ capital. In contrast, upon retirement I can have my fund balance paid out.

I didn't receive any more tax bonuses. Only costs that ate up the returns. I left the only Riester with my wife. €40 per month, her allowance, and twice the full child allowance. That's still manageable.

Everything else is a lie. What the state gives now, the insurance sales take away, and later the state holds out its hand. Although at a lower tax rate than retirees, it still takes something.

I just ran the retirement calculation through the DWS Riester calculator for fun. That would amount to about 147,000 euros by retirement. This would result in a monthly pension of 520 euros. So I would have to receive a pension for over 23.5 years to get the amount paid out, and the further appreciation on the remaining portion has not yet been taken into account. I would have to live to be over 90 for it to even remotely be worth it. I think the matter is clear.

Oh yes, and you also have to pay full taxes on that.

100€ pension per 30,000€, that is perfectly average and corresponds to almost every pension insurance, whether Riester or not.

I just dug out the 2016 tax return. There are 1646€ contributions compared to a tax refund of 629€ and 2100€ in the portfolio.

Of course, this only applies to the contribution year, but in the following years the difference to an ETF or other types of investment is marginal over the investment horizon, if it exists at all. Not to forget the capital guarantee.

Not every family situation is suitable for this, but to generally label Riester as unprofitable...

100€ pension per 30,000€, that is right on average and corresponds to pretty much every pension insurance, whether Riester or not.

I just dug out the 2016 tax return. It shows 1,646€ contributions compared to a tax refund of 629€ and 2,100€ in the portfolio.

Of course, this only applies to the contribution year, but in the following years, the difference to an ETF or other types of investments is marginal over the investment horizon, if present at all. Not to forget the capital guarantee.

Not every family constellation is suitable for it, but to label Riester as unprofitable across the board...

and what costs do you have on your assessment?

By the way, I also found it outrageous that the intermediary still gets a proportional part of his closing commission from a child allowance (I believe it is 300 per kid). And that year after year.

Sure, the Riester contract is "higher" because of this allowance. But what does the insurance guy have to do with my children? Was he there at their conception?