Sound-transmitting multi-family house, how to renovate the intermediate ceiling?

Hello,

A 4-family house is to be completely renovated from the ground up. No tenants inside anymore.

According to the reports from the former tenants, it was very noisy, I think it is probably due to the intermediate ceilings. My first thought would be about 4cm screed/concrete in every room on approximately 2cm 035 Styrofoam boards. Specifically biodegradable bio-insulation boards for 58€/sqm, I do not have a budget for that, there needs to be a good and cost-effective solution for about 300m2. Has anyone already had experience with this?

Thanks + regards Phil

Good evening,

4-family house is to be completely renovated from the ground up. No tenants inside anymore.

Expertly supervised or accompanied by architects?

According to reports from the former tenants, it was very noisy, I think it probably comes from the intermediate ceilings.

You can believe that in church ;) It could just as well be due to the narrow interior walls depending on the material or the lack of sound insulation in the stairwell or ... or ... or ....

Has anyone here already had experience?

Ask someone who knows about this (on-site inspection) before you throw "good" money after "bad" or in other words: pay twice.

Rhenish regards

...Expert unaccompanied. It's just an old village house from 1900, with wooden floorboards here. I do everything myself. The staircase is solid and doesn't transmit excessively. The tenants on the ground floor had said that you can hear everything upstairs, which is why they ultimately looked for another apartment. Here, I would only like to do something with the intermediate ceilings, but I can't overhaul the entire house. What kind of construction could be done? Is my suggestion with screed and styrofoam good or rather not? Regards Phil

Styrofoam is unlikely to help you.
Soundproofing measures should always be done using the spring principle. Hard-soft-hard.
That would mean concrete floor-mineral wool-screed.

Whether this will actually help you is questionable. The cause would have to be clearly defined. Otherwise, it’s a -by guesswork- project.

If you know why it is that way, you can think about measures.

Do you currently have no screed? Your thoughts are actually typical for somewhat older houses.

Have you ever checked for sound transmission? For example, run a radio on the floor below and listen?

€: We apparently wrote at the same time. If the house is that old, will the ceilings even be able to support such a screed? They are probably still wooden beam ceilings?

Yes, wooden beam ceilings. Radio is a good idea, but it may only officially enter the house and do whatever I want once the notary and land registry office are 100% finalized. Therefore, for now, I am just mentally walking around the house and trying to use the time to calmly address such things ;o)

But the hard soft hard thing sounds logical, because 035 EPS is actually hard when looked at over the surface...

Or at least that's what just occurred to me... carefully remove the floorboards, then put in 2-3 cm of mineral wool or fiberboards, put the floorboards back on, sand them, and treat them with hard wax oil... that way the character in the house is preserved. I think you would definitely feel this step of work.

Concrete floor-mineral wool-screed is of course the premium version, but the structure would probably become too high. What is actually the difference between concrete floor and screed?

But I couldn't pour the screed directly on the soft mineral wool...?
Or do you use somewhat harder mineral wool boards because it would certainly spring and build tension in the middle of the room?


Regards Phil

First of all, my personal opinion: Put money into it, hire a professional, and do it properly. Everything else is botch work and, in my opinion, leads to deteriorations disguised as improvements.

Step 1: Where exactly is the problem: airborne sound, impact sound, or both? According to experience, in old buildings with wooden beam ceilings, impact sound is the more critical issue. In old buildings with wooden beam ceilings, it is assumed that airborne sound is no longer a problem once the impact sound is under control. You can already forget the amusing story with the radio.

Step 2: What exactly does the raw ceiling and floor construction look like in the existing building? Beam dimensions and spacing, single-layer raw ceiling, multi-layer raw ceiling with/without additional mass, possibly hollow floors, what does the possibly existing suspended ceiling (reed mats with clay plaster?) or its connection to the beams (rigid, sprung) look like? If additional mass is in the cavity, what surface-related masses, and above all: what is its composition? (Keyword old contaminants) How is the construction and connection of the flanking components (external walls, possibly still half-timbered?)?

Only then can you think about measures. But simply screed and Styrofoam will not work with a wooden beam ceiling for structural reasons alone; then you also have to raise the door frames, etc., etc.
Basically, reinforcements can be made to the supporting structure or the suspended ceiling. However, what is possible in your case must first be clarified in the two steps described above. Best by a professional. In the Munich area, I even have a recommendation for you.