hennen
2012-11-18 20:26:59
- #1
Hello everyone,
I have the following problem: Four years ago, I noticed that moisture is entering inside on the front side of the house (without a basement). The front side of the house is approximately 80 cm lower than the top edge of the street (see photo1). After the builder made corrections twice, some areas improved, but the left side at the L-steel has worsened.
There are two main expert reports and two supplementary expert reports. One private report from a publicly appointed and sworn expert (not a personal friend) and one from a court-appointed expert. Both reports are fundamentally different, hence the supplementary reports. Both sides stand by their further statements on their own reports.
Describing everything in detail would go beyond the scope here.
Regardless of how things turn out for me, I need reliable statements on how to permanently fix the damage.
I have read a lot about DIN standards on the internet (18195-4, 18195-6 with or without drainage). For me, the DIN standards somehow seem to only apply to houses with basements and in all cases the surface water should be drained away from the house. In my case, this is not possible due to the slight slope. Water flows from top to bottom and not vice versa.
I hope my questions are understandable based on the photos, and I am writing comments from the two experts (GSV from the court-appointed expert, PSV private expert).
The GSV assumes in his report that the planned fill height corresponds to the top edge of the floor slab and not the top edge of the finished floor.
The PSV assumes that the fill is up to the top edge of the finished floor, as he had seen the construction site before when the entrance area was still paved and grass edge stones were laid to the left and right of the entrance (paving and grass edging were carried out by the builder).
I want to fill up to the top edge of the finished floor again, not only for the appearance.
The GSV is of the opinion that the floor slab only needs to be sealed against ground moisture according to DIN 18195-4.
The PSV does not specify any DIN standard as binding but his description of how it must be sealed looks different. In case of doubt, he would seal against the load case of accumulating seepage water or pressing water.
For me, this sounds like: The infiltration capacity of the soil is unknown, so water possibly cannot be drained away via drainage. In this case, sealing work should be carried out according to DIN 18195 for “pressing water."
Problem 1.
(see photo2, photo3 and photo4. Photo4 shows that the height of the curb plaster corresponds to the height of the top edge of the finished floor.)
The GSV is of the opinion that the horizontal seal is approximately at the height of the lower edge of the curb plaster.
The polymer-modified bituminous coating (KMB) must be 3 mm thick.
The KMB coating must be guided at least 10 cm below the horizontal seal.
From his point of view, I then would not need to do anything further except patch areas where stones are pressed into the sealing or where the sealing does not adhere pointwise.
The PSV says: The KMB coating is not pulled down onto the projecting concrete surfaces. A fillet was not formed. Guidelines for KMB coating processing must be observed, etc. (After his complete explanation, it sounds like everything might need to be removed and redone). Soil report must be obtained. Possibly a drainage and a permeable retention trench or seepage path and inspection option.
In my opinion, the horizontal sealing is about 16 cm below the height indicated by the GSV, because I have to subtract the floor build-up from the floor edge of the finished floor (tiles, tile adhesive, screed, and insulation).
Then I do not reach the 10 cm everywhere, and I also have to improve the height of the sealing here. It is not easy because the lower edges of the KMB sealing protrude and even tear off. It is still much less work than what the PSV describes.
After the two different explanations, I can only say HELP. How should the sealing actually look?
Problem 2.
Compacted soil. Photo3. No statements from experts, only from a well-known architect.
The "overflowed" floor slab compacts the soil in this area. I am supposed to break this up.
Is this necessary?
Problem 3.
Filling of the soil. (see also photo7. This is how it looks after heavy rain)
The GSV has made a profile sketch (see Profilskiize.jpg) and is of the opinion that the soil report is of secondary importance since the building has no basement and the plot was filled up. In this case, the exposure situation "ground moisture" applies.
For me, the sketch is not correct. On the street side, the house is 80 cm below the top edge of the street.
On the garden side, at some point the top edge of the street is lower than the house. But my question is, can the surface water from the front side flow under the floor slab to the other side and infiltrate? Or does he mean something else?
Problem 4.
Protective measures against mechanical damage to the sealing layers.
The PSV criticizes that the protective measures against mechanical damage by undefined polystyrene panels are insufficient. It was not mentioned how it should be done correctly.
The GSV did not write anything at all.
How do I properly protect the sealing? Dimple foil and still polystyrene for insulation?
Problem 5.
L-steel Photo5 (the dampest corner)
GSV opinion: The missing sealing on the L-steel can be repaired in small areas without dismantling the entire L-steel.
PSV considers proper sealing in the area of the L-steels without dismantling not feasible. Also, a protective layer to the building wall and sealing should be installed at the same time. There should also be a sealing above the splash water area, approx. 30 cm above the water-bearing level—here the top edge of the angle stone as well as laterally. (The last sentence is Chinese to me)
Should I actually have the L-steels removed and then sealed? I do not want to think about that, then I would also have to damage and then repair the neighbor’s property.
How do I apply the sealing over the splash water area or is that not so important?
Problem 6.
Neighbor's drainage. (Photo6. After the first heavy rain, water came from the drainage)
GSV opinion: The drainage is no problem here because the drainage pipe is heavily polluted. The existing condition of the aforementioned drainage pipes does not lead to increased moisture load on the sealing under the assumption of the exposure situation “ground moisture” because in this case no water flows in the drainage pipe.
PSV criticizes that the excavation pit of my house is used as an initial catchment and the drainage water from the neighbor’s building must be drained on his property with his own technical solutions.
I get along well with the neighbor. He also bought the house from the same builder and fixed moisture in some areas at his own expense.
Now I have to find an affordable solution for myself, at least to “clog” the drainage so that no water reaches my property. I am grateful for any reasonable suggestion.
Problem 7.
Rainwater pipe frost protection (photo 8. Spirit level at 50 cm)
GSV says he measured 35 cm in an unfinished state and assumes that after completion of the external facilities a sufficient covering and frost protection of the main pipe will be provided.
PSV writes only that a covering of approx. 50 cm is professionally correct.
Since I do not even reach the 35 cm when I fill up to the top edge of the finished floor and the rainwater pipe also cannot be laid deeper according to first findings (the slope in the uncovered space is already minimal), I wonder if I can insulate the rainwater pipe differently.
Is the rainwater pipe insulation with fleece or other materials sufficient? (I know, not professionally correct, but maybe still durable and justifiable)
Here I would like to add that if I fill up to the top edge of the floor slab, I would have to subtract 16 cm from the 35 cm. Then I would have only a maximum soil covering of 19 cm.
I know there are many questions, but without help I cannot move forward here.
Thank you for any help.
Adriane
I have the following problem: Four years ago, I noticed that moisture is entering inside on the front side of the house (without a basement). The front side of the house is approximately 80 cm lower than the top edge of the street (see photo1). After the builder made corrections twice, some areas improved, but the left side at the L-steel has worsened.
There are two main expert reports and two supplementary expert reports. One private report from a publicly appointed and sworn expert (not a personal friend) and one from a court-appointed expert. Both reports are fundamentally different, hence the supplementary reports. Both sides stand by their further statements on their own reports.
Describing everything in detail would go beyond the scope here.
Regardless of how things turn out for me, I need reliable statements on how to permanently fix the damage.
I have read a lot about DIN standards on the internet (18195-4, 18195-6 with or without drainage). For me, the DIN standards somehow seem to only apply to houses with basements and in all cases the surface water should be drained away from the house. In my case, this is not possible due to the slight slope. Water flows from top to bottom and not vice versa.
I hope my questions are understandable based on the photos, and I am writing comments from the two experts (GSV from the court-appointed expert, PSV private expert).
The GSV assumes in his report that the planned fill height corresponds to the top edge of the floor slab and not the top edge of the finished floor.
The PSV assumes that the fill is up to the top edge of the finished floor, as he had seen the construction site before when the entrance area was still paved and grass edge stones were laid to the left and right of the entrance (paving and grass edging were carried out by the builder).
I want to fill up to the top edge of the finished floor again, not only for the appearance.
The GSV is of the opinion that the floor slab only needs to be sealed against ground moisture according to DIN 18195-4.
The PSV does not specify any DIN standard as binding but his description of how it must be sealed looks different. In case of doubt, he would seal against the load case of accumulating seepage water or pressing water.
For me, this sounds like: The infiltration capacity of the soil is unknown, so water possibly cannot be drained away via drainage. In this case, sealing work should be carried out according to DIN 18195 for “pressing water."
Problem 1.
(see photo2, photo3 and photo4. Photo4 shows that the height of the curb plaster corresponds to the height of the top edge of the finished floor.)
The GSV is of the opinion that the horizontal seal is approximately at the height of the lower edge of the curb plaster.
The polymer-modified bituminous coating (KMB) must be 3 mm thick.
The KMB coating must be guided at least 10 cm below the horizontal seal.
From his point of view, I then would not need to do anything further except patch areas where stones are pressed into the sealing or where the sealing does not adhere pointwise.
The PSV says: The KMB coating is not pulled down onto the projecting concrete surfaces. A fillet was not formed. Guidelines for KMB coating processing must be observed, etc. (After his complete explanation, it sounds like everything might need to be removed and redone). Soil report must be obtained. Possibly a drainage and a permeable retention trench or seepage path and inspection option.
In my opinion, the horizontal sealing is about 16 cm below the height indicated by the GSV, because I have to subtract the floor build-up from the floor edge of the finished floor (tiles, tile adhesive, screed, and insulation).
Then I do not reach the 10 cm everywhere, and I also have to improve the height of the sealing here. It is not easy because the lower edges of the KMB sealing protrude and even tear off. It is still much less work than what the PSV describes.
After the two different explanations, I can only say HELP. How should the sealing actually look?
Problem 2.
Compacted soil. Photo3. No statements from experts, only from a well-known architect.
The "overflowed" floor slab compacts the soil in this area. I am supposed to break this up.
Is this necessary?
Problem 3.
Filling of the soil. (see also photo7. This is how it looks after heavy rain)
The GSV has made a profile sketch (see Profilskiize.jpg) and is of the opinion that the soil report is of secondary importance since the building has no basement and the plot was filled up. In this case, the exposure situation "ground moisture" applies.
For me, the sketch is not correct. On the street side, the house is 80 cm below the top edge of the street.
On the garden side, at some point the top edge of the street is lower than the house. But my question is, can the surface water from the front side flow under the floor slab to the other side and infiltrate? Or does he mean something else?
Problem 4.
Protective measures against mechanical damage to the sealing layers.
The PSV criticizes that the protective measures against mechanical damage by undefined polystyrene panels are insufficient. It was not mentioned how it should be done correctly.
The GSV did not write anything at all.
How do I properly protect the sealing? Dimple foil and still polystyrene for insulation?
Problem 5.
L-steel Photo5 (the dampest corner)
GSV opinion: The missing sealing on the L-steel can be repaired in small areas without dismantling the entire L-steel.
PSV considers proper sealing in the area of the L-steels without dismantling not feasible. Also, a protective layer to the building wall and sealing should be installed at the same time. There should also be a sealing above the splash water area, approx. 30 cm above the water-bearing level—here the top edge of the angle stone as well as laterally. (The last sentence is Chinese to me)
Should I actually have the L-steels removed and then sealed? I do not want to think about that, then I would also have to damage and then repair the neighbor’s property.
How do I apply the sealing over the splash water area or is that not so important?
Problem 6.
Neighbor's drainage. (Photo6. After the first heavy rain, water came from the drainage)
GSV opinion: The drainage is no problem here because the drainage pipe is heavily polluted. The existing condition of the aforementioned drainage pipes does not lead to increased moisture load on the sealing under the assumption of the exposure situation “ground moisture” because in this case no water flows in the drainage pipe.
PSV criticizes that the excavation pit of my house is used as an initial catchment and the drainage water from the neighbor’s building must be drained on his property with his own technical solutions.
I get along well with the neighbor. He also bought the house from the same builder and fixed moisture in some areas at his own expense.
Now I have to find an affordable solution for myself, at least to “clog” the drainage so that no water reaches my property. I am grateful for any reasonable suggestion.
Problem 7.
Rainwater pipe frost protection (photo 8. Spirit level at 50 cm)
GSV says he measured 35 cm in an unfinished state and assumes that after completion of the external facilities a sufficient covering and frost protection of the main pipe will be provided.
PSV writes only that a covering of approx. 50 cm is professionally correct.
Since I do not even reach the 35 cm when I fill up to the top edge of the finished floor and the rainwater pipe also cannot be laid deeper according to first findings (the slope in the uncovered space is already minimal), I wonder if I can insulate the rainwater pipe differently.
Is the rainwater pipe insulation with fleece or other materials sufficient? (I know, not professionally correct, but maybe still durable and justifiable)
Here I would like to add that if I fill up to the top edge of the floor slab, I would have to subtract 16 cm from the 35 cm. Then I would have only a maximum soil covering of 19 cm.
I know there are many questions, but without help I cannot move forward here.
Thank you for any help.
Adriane