Exotic combination: wood pellets + exhaust air heat pump? [fr]Combinaison exotique : granulés de bois + pompe à chaleur à air évacué ?[/fr] [hi]अजीब संयोजन: लकड़ी के पेललेट + निकासी वायु हीट पंप? [in]Kombinasi eksotik: pelet kayu + pompa panas udara buang? [zh]异国组合:木质颗粒 + 排气热泵?[/zh] [ru]Экзотическая комбинация: древесные пеллеты + вытяжной тепловой насос? [es]¿Combinación exótica: pellets de madera + bomba de calor de aire de escape?

  • Erstellt am 2020-07-31 21:44:17

RockyFranco

2020-07-31 21:44:17
  • #1
Hello,

first of all, many thanks that this forum provides a platform for such questions.
I have the following problem that I am trying to solve and hope to get some tips from the pros.

I am interested in a house, have not bought it yet.
- Viebrockhaus, so-called 3 liter house, HAHA. Built 2000
- very good equipment in terms of bathrooms, floors, materials
- 2 upper floors total 200 sqm with mansard roof and fully developed basement with office of 90 sqm
- here it comes, hold on: they easily have 400€ electricity costs per month and blow out 10-12,000 kWh depending on the year. Electrically, mind you. For two people!
- radiators throughout the whole house. No underfloor heating!. Two fireplaces, whose draft is exactly opposite the technical room. Ok, the fireplaces also have flaps to the hallway.
- heating: 2 x exhaust air heat pumps Nibe Fighter 600 or 610 for the living area and one Nibe Fighter 315 for the basement/office.
- central exhaust system from the relevant rooms, and decentralized supply air openings in every room

Clearly, the system is so sh... that it probably heats with the heating rods 90% of the time. The ventilation must also be on, otherwise no efficiency is achieved at all.

I want to get away from these high costs. I have read up that you can tune with timers and so on, mostly ventilation off, fake temperature with thermal sensors, etc. But I think all that is not effective and annoying.

IDEA:
- since there is MASSIVE space in the technical room in the basement, including a large storage room. Use of a suitable wood pellet heating system. Chimney external draft. I don’t mind the look.
Combine the whole thing with a modern exhaust air heat pump like Nibe F135, which should only run occasionally.
To maintain the ventilation, I am afraid that otherwise it might get moldy.
The house was very dry and did not give a musty impression.
Viewing was at 35°C, scorching hot inside, of course, because they pull in the warm air.

What do you say to this, or is this nonsense? Solar thermal for hot water instead? I have also thought about leaving the old Nibe additionally in place and only using the ventilation function. What I don’t want is to break up 200 sqm of floor and install underfloor heating.
Therefore, OIL/GAS/GW/GSOL are probably out.
I have also thought about photovoltaics to cover the horrendous electricity costs, but that would be pearls before swine and in the end not even enough.
Maybe someone still has a tip.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Frank
 

nordanney

2020-08-01 00:18:10
  • #2
If the energy standard is good and radiators along with piping are present, I would consider a classic air-to-water heat pump. You have to do the calculations.
 

RockyFranco

2020-08-01 11:28:05
  • #3
Unfortunately, that is exactly the misconception of most brainwashed salespeople. A modern air-to-water heat pump operates optimally at a completely different operating point, but with these temperatures, I cannot get the radiators "warm" enough to heat a house. In other words, with a modern air-to-water heat pump, I am so inefficient under these boundary conditions that I might as well keep the old configuration. It only works, if at all, with fuel media. The question is, what do you do about the ventilation...
 

Joedreck

2020-08-01 11:36:49
  • #4
Why is gas ruled out? Gas with radiators is absolutely fine.
 

nordanney

2020-08-01 11:47:00
  • #5

No flawed thinking. It depends on the insulation standard and the possible heating surface of the radiators. And only you and/or the heating technician/planner can say that. And if the radiators work with 35 degrees flow temperature, then why not a heat pump?
What does your calculation look like (heating load, room by room, etc.)?

In the next few weeks, I will also be converting an apartment in a two-family house from oil to heat pump myself — new low-temperature radiators will come into play. Accompanied by insulation measures. The framework conditions will then fit for me.
 

nordanney

2020-08-01 11:49:33
  • #6
Much simpler/more robust than the heat pump I brought into play. If in doubt, even with a tank in the garden if no gas line is possible.
 

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