carl_3000
2024-01-20 12:13:50
- #1
Hello everyone,
we are a group of 7 people who would like to renovate an old house and live in it again. To make the house habitable again, quite a bit of work and money will probably have to be invested. We currently estimate material costs of around 40k - 50k € and about 8-12 months of work (weekends, holidays, evenings). In return, we can live in the house rent-free and only have to pay the ancillary costs, which will be very worthwhile in the long term.
Summary:
House project with 7 people. 2 people have ownership claims to the house, 5 people do not. Rent-free living is allowed, but initially some renovation work must be done. This requires advance payments in the form of money (material costs) and working hours.
If one of the 5 people without ownership claims moves out prematurely without the investments having been amortized, these are not secured and may not be recovered in case of doubt. Therefore, concepts are being sought to minimize the risk and to find contractual agreements for this.
Detailed question:
The house belongs to the family of 2 siblings in the group (Person G1 & Person G2). The other 5 people have no ownership claims to this house. We can live in the house rent-free, but have to advance both material costs and working hours.
It only pays off for the 5 people WITHOUT ownership claims in the house IF they live in this project long enough. The costs can then be amortized. There is the risk that due to personal reasons or conflicts in the group people leave the project prematurely and the previously invested costs and work time can no longer be amortized.
To minimize this risk, we are currently working on concepts to contractually secure the 5 people WITHOUT ownership claims to the house and enable them to recover their remaining investments (material costs + work time) even after moving out.
Objective:
We would like to ask you for ideas and input.
Securing the material costs:
We have come up with the following concept to secure the material costs:
[IMG width="321px" alt="r/Hausbau - Investitionsrisiko in gemeinschaftlichem Hausprojekt absichern (Materialkosten und Arbeitszeit)"]https://preview.redd.it/088zan9dukdc1.png?width=1660&format=png&auto=webp&s=96b22a202dbcf79a295e501ccee8c81d7f9f5c02[/IMG]
To raise the material costs, Person A + Person B give private loans to the people with ownership claims (Person G1 + Person G2) (20,000 € + 30,000 €). With this money, Person G1 + Person G2 then pay for the materials and construction costs for the renovation of the house and receive a habitable house in return.
Person G1 and Person G2 rent this out to the group of 7 people (so theoretically also to themselves). With the rental income, Person G1 and Person G2 can then repay the private loans to Person A and B.
Important here: If Person A or Person B moves out before the investments for the material costs are amortized, they still have a legally effective claim to their investments due to the previously concluded private loans.
New tenants would then pay rent instead of Person A and Person B and thus contribute their part to the repayment of the investment costs.
Possible problems:
Securing the working hours:
Unfortunately, we are not that far yet and would especially appreciate input:
One idea was to also regulate the working hours as private loans to Person G1 + G2. For example: Person C works 100 hours on the house for a previously agreed hourly rate in the group of 15 €, 100 hours x 15 € / hour = 1,500 €. Then Person C would give a private loan to Person G1 + G2. Here, however, the money would not actually be transferred as this concerns working hours. Maybe this could be solved by a cash loan and a privately issued receipt. The loan would be repaid with rent income as in the first example.
Another possibility would be to issue invoices to Person G1 + G2. However, this would be time-consuming for us. Also, theoretically, we would have to pay taxes on the "income" (or?), which would lead to even higher costs and which we do not really want.
Do you have any ideas?
Otherwise, thank you very much in advance and best regards from Person A, B, C, D, E, G1 and G2
we are a group of 7 people who would like to renovate an old house and live in it again. To make the house habitable again, quite a bit of work and money will probably have to be invested. We currently estimate material costs of around 40k - 50k € and about 8-12 months of work (weekends, holidays, evenings). In return, we can live in the house rent-free and only have to pay the ancillary costs, which will be very worthwhile in the long term.
Summary:
House project with 7 people. 2 people have ownership claims to the house, 5 people do not. Rent-free living is allowed, but initially some renovation work must be done. This requires advance payments in the form of money (material costs) and working hours.
If one of the 5 people without ownership claims moves out prematurely without the investments having been amortized, these are not secured and may not be recovered in case of doubt. Therefore, concepts are being sought to minimize the risk and to find contractual agreements for this.
Detailed question:
The house belongs to the family of 2 siblings in the group (Person G1 & Person G2). The other 5 people have no ownership claims to this house. We can live in the house rent-free, but have to advance both material costs and working hours.
It only pays off for the 5 people WITHOUT ownership claims in the house IF they live in this project long enough. The costs can then be amortized. There is the risk that due to personal reasons or conflicts in the group people leave the project prematurely and the previously invested costs and work time can no longer be amortized.
To minimize this risk, we are currently working on concepts to contractually secure the 5 people WITHOUT ownership claims to the house and enable them to recover their remaining investments (material costs + work time) even after moving out.
Objective:
[*]Contractual, legally binding security of investment costs (material costs and working hours) for persons WITHOUT ownership claims to the house
We would like to ask you for ideas and input.
Securing the material costs:
We have come up with the following concept to secure the material costs:
[IMG width="321px" alt="r/Hausbau - Investitionsrisiko in gemeinschaftlichem Hausprojekt absichern (Materialkosten und Arbeitszeit)"]https://preview.redd.it/088zan9dukdc1.png?width=1660&format=png&auto=webp&s=96b22a202dbcf79a295e501ccee8c81d7f9f5c02[/IMG]
To raise the material costs, Person A + Person B give private loans to the people with ownership claims (Person G1 + Person G2) (20,000 € + 30,000 €). With this money, Person G1 + Person G2 then pay for the materials and construction costs for the renovation of the house and receive a habitable house in return.
Person G1 and Person G2 rent this out to the group of 7 people (so theoretically also to themselves). With the rental income, Person G1 and Person G2 can then repay the private loans to Person A and B.
Important here: If Person A or Person B moves out before the investments for the material costs are amortized, they still have a legally effective claim to their investments due to the previously concluded private loans.
New tenants would then pay rent instead of Person A and Person B and thus contribute their part to the repayment of the investment costs.
Possible problems:
[*]Taxes: Are taxes due on the rental income? We would like to avoid that
[*]Interest: Is it enough to tax the loan at 0.01%? We have read somewhere that the interest should be adjusted to usual interest rates
Securing the working hours:
Unfortunately, we are not that far yet and would especially appreciate input:
One idea was to also regulate the working hours as private loans to Person G1 + G2. For example: Person C works 100 hours on the house for a previously agreed hourly rate in the group of 15 €, 100 hours x 15 € / hour = 1,500 €. Then Person C would give a private loan to Person G1 + G2. Here, however, the money would not actually be transferred as this concerns working hours. Maybe this could be solved by a cash loan and a privately issued receipt. The loan would be repaid with rent income as in the first example.
Another possibility would be to issue invoices to Person G1 + G2. However, this would be time-consuming for us. Also, theoretically, we would have to pay taxes on the "income" (or?), which would lead to even higher costs and which we do not really want.
Do you have any ideas?
Otherwise, thank you very much in advance and best regards from Person A, B, C, D, E, G1 and G2