Pantry outside the building envelope - is it reasonable?

  • Erstellt am 2012-06-03 15:41:32

SAnAH

2012-06-03 15:41:32
  • #1
Hello *,

we are at the beginning of the house planning and would like to have a pantry for vegetables, fruit, cakes, drinks, etc.

In my opinion, integrating this into the highly insulated building envelope is not sensible, since the room on the one hand would probably not stay particularly cool or, if it does (e.g. through additional cooling?), I would get condensation on the walls inside the room due to cooler interior walls and warmer walls of the other rooms—right?

Therefore, the idea was to "add" the pantry, about 5-6m2, outside the insulated envelope.
There should be direct access from the kitchen to this room (through a door that is otherwise always closed), a second door in the room itself allows access from the garage/carport for easy storage of purchased goods.

We are aware that 2 doors also mean less space.

It is also often recommended not to use concrete as the floor, but the earth, in order to regulate the room humidity accordingly.
So I would only lay a foundation for the walls here, and cover the rest with ???, so that the existing soil moisture can regulate well there.

Are my considerations sensible/feasible (without huge effort) or what do you think about it?
Should I connect the room to the planned ventilation system or would a ventilation opening at the top suffice here (topic winter)?

Oh yes, it is to be a passive house, construction type "Holz-Lego" Steko with cellulose interior insulation (blown into the "stones") as well as probably wood fiber soft boards as exterior insulation.

The room faces north.

SAnAH
 

ato

2012-07-03 02:56:37
  • #2
Hi, basically I think the idea of building the pantry outside is quite good. But the bare earth floor in the pantry...? Mice, fungi, mold...?
 

BratacDD

2012-07-03 10:54:54
  • #3
Hello,

purely from a construction technology perspective, what you have planned is actually not a problem. Because it is basically like a kind of shed in front of the house. However, for example, the question arises for me in winter when the outside temperatures fall well below 0° Celsius. Most food does not tolerate that. So you would have to heat the room a little again, and then without proper insulation, the heat just flies away. So I can't really imagine how that is supposed to work when you consider all the boundary conditions. I find a well-insulated room where you turn off the heating (e.g., a pantry or a cellar room if available) much better suited. And insulation works both ways; it also prevents the room from overheating excessively. And if you avoid other energy producers (windows, devices, etc.), such a room should also remain rather cool.

Best regards

Bratac
 

Der Da

2012-07-03 11:43:14
  • #4
I can understand the desire; we have also dealt with it. But building an extension outside is basically a no-go, because what about frost and direct sunlight? The old pantries were either in the basement at a constant 15 degrees or in the house with an opening to the outside and always in the shade.

Today, storing supplies is no longer necessary because there is very good availability. There are also now such economical refrigerators with a 0-degree zone, where vegetables keep fresh forever. We bought one with a height of 178 cm. That is enough to keep vegetables fresh for over 1-2 weeks. We will only use our pantry as a dry and equipment storage.

Overall, the whole thing is much cheaper than a pantry, where you then also have to pay attention to an extremely well-insulated door. Ultimately, it is just another potential weak spot in the house where energy can be lost and thermal bridges can occur.

Finally, you either live in the countryside, where you can get your potatoes well stored from the farmer anyway, or in the city, where you no longer get natural potatoes. The vegetables come from Spain, Holland, etc....
 

SAnAH

2012-07-07 19:45:37
  • #5
Hello,

thank you very much for the answers (unfortunately, I only got around to looking today....)

@Ato:



OK, that's why the statement "laying out with ???" - I still have no real idea what I should put in there - the pure earth is supposed to work super well as a moisture regulator. Well, we’ll see.

@Bratac
I was reluctant to use the "internal" space inside the house for the pantry.
WRL is also planned - the temperature shouldn’t exceed 15 degrees, even in summer, I would plan an exhaust shaft there.
I thought I would insulate the external room just like the rest of the house and keep the temperature at a "normal" level in winter with a small electric heater – which shouldn't have to run too often.

It is also not advantageous to have a cold area in a highly insulated house – because of condensation – or is this not as critical as I have thought so far?

@Der Da
The pantry will be (planned) on the north side or in the shade.
Mmh, the pantry should also hold cakes, drinks, and possibly various baking forms, boards, etc.
Unfortunately, the fridge can’t do that – although the idea is not bad – I will still take a look at such a device.

Can I store my potatoes, onions, tomatoes, lemons, ginger, garlic including flavor ... in the 0-degree fridge?

I would rather not have to drive away every day (driving a car would be necessary) and prefer to have one more bag of flour at home...

Regarding the topic "significantly cheaper" – it certainly will be, and if the project exceeds the pain threshold, I will have to pull the emergency brake...

Have a wonderful weekend
 

perlenmann

2012-07-08 14:53:19
  • #6
So the most sensible solution for your wishes is and remains a basement! An extra attached building part with a different climate costs unnecessarily, and I would really only worry whether it all fits structurally at all... I also have the 0-degree refrigerator! Or rather, it has a meat compartment (0C) and a vegetable compartment (0C + adjustable humidity). I can absolutely recommend it, except that the apples are already cold as soon as you take them out... but they also easily last over a month without shriveling! Check if there is an entire refrigerator based on this principle? Because to store everything in it, even the 2m model is too small!
 

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