Best consultant and assessment of renovation costs for a 1960s house

Hello dear forum,

first of all, I apologize because I feel that there are already plenty of similar posts in this forum, but I still couldn’t answer my questions with them.

We have been looking for a small house about 30 km south of Bonn, near the Rhine, for about 16 months. Unfortunately, nothing suitable has come up so far. While at first we were looking for a property with little need for renovation, due to the unsuccessful search, we have now expanded our search parameters. The reason we initially looked for little renovation needed is because of my two left hands and especially the factor time. My partner is an engineer and should be able to manage quite a bit compared to me, but time remains a limiting factor. That means we would mostly have things done by others.

I would first be interested to know who can best advise us on costs before buying (i.e., during the first or second viewing) if we look at a house in need of renovation? Do you take an architect, a building surveyor, or an energy consultant? There are countless examples in the forum, but I can never tell if those are the real final costs or if those are the costs you first have to pay but from which grant payments or tax rebates can then be deducted.

I will manage the financing on my own, so I don’t give that much thought for now. Since we first looked at an apartment and then gradually increased our budget, it is clearly a question of willingness and meaningfulness, which is why we are limiting the budget for the project ourselves. So, in order to even estimate whether a property is financially interesting at all, we would like to better classify which renovation costs remain after deducting all tax reimbursements or subsidies. Who would be a good advisor in such cases?

Maybe you can clarify this for me using the following example:

According to my calculation, the house we looked at last week is probably too expensive. It was supposed to cost 245,000 euros, and in my opinion, everything would have to be done. Probably best to gut it down to the shell. The house is a semi-detached house with about 100 sqm, which is perfectly sufficient for us. We explicitly do not want anything much bigger because we simply don’t need it. The house has a basement.

In my opinion, the windows, roof (including at least insulation of the top floor ceiling—the attic probably doesn’t have to be used), heating with ventilation, electrical and water lines, bathroom and guest WC, basement ceiling insulation, facade insulation, new floors, and probably other work I haven’t even thought of yet would definitely have to be done... We’ll leave the kitchen aside... we still have one... What final costs (for me these are costs after subsidies or tax rebates have already been deducted) would one roughly have to expect in such a case? I will leave solar out for now because it should refinance itself after a certain period.

Thanks for your effort

You require the real estate purchasing consultation of an architect who has experience in renovating existing buildings and energy-efficient refurbishment. The real estate purchasing consultation should ideally take place after your initial viewing, once you have decided that the property is fundamentally suitable for you in terms of location, size, appearance, etc. The consultation then focuses on the assessment of the building fabric, any possible construction damage, constructive aspects that might be important for a potential renovation, etc., and also takes into account the building and planning regulations for construction measures requiring approval on the house.

After this property inspection, which usually lasts 2-3 hours, the architect can provide you with an approximate cost estimate for the construction, renovation, or refurbishment measures you desire. You can then decide whether the purchase and renovation/refurbishment continue to be an option for you.

The energy consultant has no relevance at this point and only comes into play later in the renovation planning process - please make sure to note this. Prematurely prepared "Individual Renovation Roadmaps" for KfW/BEG/Bafa funding are usually useless for further planning.

Regarding the renovation costs of your hypothetical building: assume that in the so-called "gut renovation" – the teardown to the shell – construction costs arise that correspond to those of a new building of comparable size. Realistically, this currently amounts to about gross €4,500 - 5,000 per m2 of net usable area, including incidental construction costs. This always presumes that the property is not a listed building and is not in a rather dilapidated condition. Generally, the construction costs do not include the costs for outdoor facilities, development, interior furnishings (kitchen, lighting, individual interior fittings) – they refer solely to the renovation of the house.

Thank you very much for your effort! I was thinking of a small office on site (5 or 6 people) for the energy consultant (which I haven’t visited yet), which, besides energy consulting, also has an architect, two site managers, and people trained in metal construction and gas and water installation. My question would be whether they might be better companions for such an overall project than "just" an architect?

The house isn’t really that fictitious, since I actually looked at it two weeks ago. However, I refrained from submitting a bid and/or involving an expert, because I could already calculate that it would be too expensive. But I definitely didn’t expect 4500 to 5000 euros, and to be honest, that really knocked the wind out of my sails... I’m still very curious about what the final costs will be in the end. I had estimated 300,000 to 350,000 for the project and hoped that a noticeable amount could still be deducted through grants or tax reductions. Even with 300,000 (without deductions for any grants), building would be more attractive. Regards, Jacques

That also depends on the actually necessary or planned work. If dismantling means gutting (floors/screed, bathrooms, tiles, pipes), it's not much effort at all. Having it built is just expensive. I am currently accompanying a core renovation to the kfW70-EE standard. The owners did the gutting themselves. 140m² single-family house, 1 ground floor + attic + loft + cold basement. New roof according to KfW: 72k€ Facade insulation ETICS with plaster: 34k€ Front door + windows with roller shutters and large sliding terrace door, new basement door: 34k€ Heat pump with underfloor heating throughout the house: 44k€ 2 bathrooms with tiles: 19k€ Electrical system with new distribution box and wiring (without smarthome/KNX): 5k€ materials, because self-performed, otherwise 15k€ Decentralized ventilation with heat recovery: 5k€ Basement ceiling insulation (materials, self-performed): approx. 4k€

In addition, there are kitchen, floors, plastering and painting work throughout the house

In total, a good 250k€ for 140m²

In terms of funding, there is a KfW loan of up to 150k€ per residential unit, with a relatively low interest rate and (in this case) a 25% grant. In addition, individual measures beyond that (in this case ETICS and windows) get a 20% grant via BEG EM funding (with the existing renovation roadmap) up to 60k€ eligible costs per calendar year.

With the costs, it would also have been possible to slim down (roller shutters + sliding element cost 12k€ extra, roof tiles and dormer cladding could have been almost 8k€ cheaper). But it could have been more expensive as well. Windows made of wood/aluminum instead of plastic, wrapping the basement in earth instead of just the basement ceiling, much more elaborate bathrooms, floor plan changes, so you can also easily spend 300k€ or 350k€ for it.

The costs for the measures on the shell can be broken down relatively linearly to smaller areas for orientation. But Schleswig-Holstein, not on the Rhine.

For an assessment, the office you mentioned sounds good. If they have energy consultants and architects, they usually do not only have one perspective. In planning and tendering/awarding, an architect, even in renovation, can be worth much more than their fee in the end.

a total of around €250k for 140m²

The individual items in the renovation example are realistic. However, it would be interesting to know whether a.) these are net/gross prices and b.) whether incidental construction costs are also included, which arise in a renovation planning carried out by an architect including construction supervision. With all other possible fees for structural engineers and other engineering services, an additional 18-23% is added.

I would have expected €300,000 to €350,000 for the project and hoped that a noticeable amount of funding or tax relief could still be deducted. Even with €300,000 (without deductions of any subsidies), building would be more attractive.

What is included in your sum of €300k-€350k? The property purchase price + renovation costs or only the additional renovation costs on top of the purchase price of €245k? Trying to renovate 100m² for only €55k-€105k is not possible. The subsidies should also not be estimated too high. Experience shows that per residential unit about €20k-€25k are paid out as grants. I always recommend viewing these subsidies as a buffer and not building financing on them.

Thank you wpic and dertill

That is already a good orientation and very helpful and instructive for me. Considering the renovation as a buffer seems like a sensible and good tip.

The energy consulting office got in touch today and said that it will only take action later. So I would need a property purchase consultation from an architect or building expert when it becomes more concrete and imaginable.

: In your example, the water pipes were not replaced, right? What would be the cost there?

Stripping out (apart from the pipes) should be manageable even for me. I am also willing to make compromises on some points. Basically, I am quite frugal in many respects, not because I cannot afford it, but because I choose not to spend that way. For example, I do not need underfloor heating for living comfort. If it is to make sense for me, it has to make both energetic AND financial sense. I also do not need to insulate the attic if we have our approx. 100 sqm of living space otherwise. That is totally enough. And then possibly insulation of the topmost living floor ceiling would suffice. Plastic windows are completely adequate, I do not need electric shutters, and for sustainability reasons, I have planned to buy a second-hand kitchen. A bathroom is not a room that has to be a palace for me, we don’t spend a lot of time in there, so standard is perfectly sufficient.
The roof appears to me as a layman and novice as quite expensive in your example. Is that always the case?

I don’t know if linking is allowed here. This house here are, for example, quite similar both in price and otherwise to the other one mentioned above, which is no longer available.

The lady from the Sparkasse said that she would estimate refurbishment costs of 150k for the house just linked, if gas is renewed and the roof does not have to be touched because it is apparently sealed. However, the house is not an option due to its location near the B9, but it is a very good example. Solar would definitely be important to me as well...

I will try to write a bit more tomorrow.