Approach to surveying

Hello everyone, I have already searched the forum on this topic but could not find a 100% definitive answer. The current situation is as follows: A fully developed plot in the new development area has been purchased. I have received the site plan from the cadastral office, and the architect has already drawn in the planned house. The building application has also already been submitted. During the first survey by the municipality, no boundary stones were placed on the plot. According to the contract, our general contractor measures the house before the construction phase, but not the plot. When do I need which surveying service? The surveying offices I have spoken to so far said they would only survey the plot after the house is completed because the boundaries can easily shift during the construction phase. I assume that our general contractor will also measure the house based on coordinates and not by going x meters at y degrees from the surveyed plot boundary to reach the corner of the house? Therefore, my planned approach would be as follows:

[*]The general contractor measures the house based on the coordinates on the site plan [*]A separate surveying office comes after the completion of the construction project to survey the plot including the house

Immediate boundary construction is only planned in a second step with the erection of a carport. However, the house is located on the boundary of the building area. Thanks in advance!

There is a lot going on very unorthodoxly again. The building application must include at least the simple or possibly the official site plan of a sworn and publicly appointed surveyor. If the architect or the construction manager with the architect create this themselves, they also assume responsibility for the accuracy of their information or assumptions, with all consequences.

If boundary stones do not exist, a boundary verification up to the official boundary notification must possibly be carried out. This is clarified before the start of the design. This is also the task of a sworn and publicly appointed surveyor. The construction manager does not measure anything on the property at all: The surveyor should be commissioned with measuring in the batter boards and thus positioning the foundations/the shell construction after the design has been filed in the building application. After completion of construction, the object is remeasured by the surveyor for registration in the land registry.

During the construction phase, no "boundary lines are shifted" ... All surveying services that concern the location of the construction project on the property should be carried out by a surveyor. The construction manager limits himself to maintaining the height measurements and the building exterior dimensions after positioning by the surveyor. For large buildings, these services are also constantly monitored by a surveyor, e.g., with concrete formwork.

Your architect or the construction manager must commission these surveying services. Or you ask 2-3 surveying offices for an offer for these services.

Okay, I have to clarify my post above a bit:

At least the simple or possibly also the official site plan from a public surveying engineer is required for the building application.

This site plan is attached to the building application.

The builder does not measure anything on the property at all: The surveyor should be commissioned with measuring in the batter boards and thus the positioning of the foundations/the shell construction after the design has been registered in the building application.

Correct, the builder does not measure anything. However, he is responsible for ensuring that a surveyor determines the positioning of the foundation on his behalf.

After completion of construction, the object is measured again by the surveyor for registration in the cadastral register.

...and this is done on our behalf.

Your architect or the builder must commission these surveying services. Or you ask 2-3 surveying offices for an offer for these services.

That was the plan. My architect is commissioning the surveyor to position the foundation on the property and we commissioned one after completion of the work to measure the building.
Or is there an obligation that we must already have the surveyor come to the property now to establish the property boundaries?

Hello sn4tch,

as you describe the situation, you do not yet need a surveyor. The property boundaries are fixed; they have just not been transferred to the location yet.

No boundary markers were set on the property during the municipality's first survey.

Apparently, the municipality is applying the deferred marking procedure here. For example, in new development areas, if it is to be expected that boundary markings will be lost during construction work, especially during road expansion, the marking obligation for new boundaries can be postponed. Here, the owner can determine the time when their boundaries are to be marked. The costs for this are usually already included in the purchase price (check the notary contract).

I assume you do not have a building permit yet. Occasionally, there are indications here of which proofs your building permit authority requires. In our state NRW, this is handled very differently. The Lower Saxony Building Code states in §72:
(2) The building supervisory authority can, in individual cases, order that the footprint of the building be staked out or its height position be determined and that the staking out or determination must be approved by it before construction begins.
and §76:
(3) The building supervisory authority can require that proof be presented to it by the builder from a surveying and cadastral authority, another officially authorized surveying office for measurements related to the establishment and maintenance of state surveying and the land registry, a publicly appointed surveyor (female) or a publicly appointed surveyor (male) that distances as well as footprints and heights have been observed.

When the building permit is granted, the building must be staked out. Since you are building without a basement, you can presumably dispense with a rough staking out, so that only a fine staking out (keyword: batter boards) is required. Who performs this is not legally prescribed. The above-mentioned §§ are only permissive provisions. At the topic start you write that the builder (BU) surveys the house, in the second post that the architect commissions the surveyor. Check your contract again to see which service the builder must provide under what conditions so that you do not pay twice. Theoretically, your builder may well carry out the staking out (or your architect or even you yourself). For liability reasons, this is certainly not recommended, but allowed. If the staking out costs are already included in the builder’s contract and the marking costs are already included in the purchase price of the property, you can request the cadastral authority to perform the marking. Then the builder can also perform the building staking out (as said: check liability!). However, if the boundary markers are lost, you will probably have to bear the costs of a renewed boundary declaration, e.g. for fence construction, as it will likely be difficult to identify or prove the fault of the responsible party.

Therefore, I recommend that you stick to your plan to involve a surveyor for the staking out. Whether you then hire a different one for the later building survey is of course up to you. Generally, the fee and honorarium regulations provide possibilities for discounts on complete offers.

Hello Escroda,
That was a very detailed and helpful answer! Thank you for that!

Here the owner can determine the time when his boundaries are to be marked. The costs for this are usually already included in the purchase price (take a look at the notary contract).

The notary contract only states
Experience shows that existing boundary stones or boundary markers are moved or shifted during construction measures. It is the buyer's responsibility to restore these at their own expense if necessary. The seller has no liability in this respect.
After consulting with the municipality, I was just informed that no boundary stones have been set in that area yet..

At the start of the topic you write that the general contractor surveys the house, in the second post that the architect commissions the survey engineer. Take another look at your contract to see which service the general contractor has to provide under what conditions so that you don't pay twice.

Maybe to clarify once again, I was indeed not entirely precise:
We have a contract with a general contractor who has already accompanied us in the planning phase with the help of a permanently employed architect. Accordingly, I had equated the architect and the general contractor, which was of course not entirely correct. According to the contract, the general contractor takes over the surveying of the building on the property and also assumes liability here.

I therefore recommend that you stick to your plan to involve a survey engineer for staking out. Whether you then commission another one for the later building survey is of course up to you. In general, however, the fee and honorarium regulations offer possibilities for discounts in complete offers.

Alright, thank you for your recommendation. Then I will proceed as planned.